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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    To me malpractice can also be negligence and of course vice versa. If it bothers you take your pick as to which one you prefer.

    No it can not. Some one can be charged with both yet they are separate charges. Malpractice is not something a paperboy here in the US is susceptible to as a charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Mcgyver . What you do is terrific. .
    kind of you to say so, but no cape deserved. Its the basic rules & regs that we need to follow, part of operations. They are for the most part good rules as I'm not in the plant everyday so it creates policy and procedures that emphasize safety. I do see it being view somewhat as a waste and pita for smaller shops, I mean if the owner is using the slings everyday you dpn't need an initialed check list to see they need replacing, but if I'm not there, it does set the tone that its a priority and we don't F around with it, if the sling is torn and you have initial the sheet, you're going to pull it from service.

    There are three advantages. Strongest is putting everything in place so that all go home safely. Second is protection from liability; of someone does something really stupid but I've done everything I should have done and can document it, no jail time....and thirdly business development. Lots of bigger customers want to know your safety programs and will even come in and audit

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  4. #43
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    I just shudder at that thought. Ugh. Way back when I was working for my dad, he had a shop foreman who was a career alcoholic. Would actually walk in at 8 am smelling of liquor and stumbling. He'd trip over things, drop cutters, etc. The scariest part was when he got the keys to the truck and took it out for a weekend spin - on a revoked license that had 8 DUI's on it! I was terrified this guy was gonna fall into a machine. Thankfully, he pushed his luck one time too many, got fired and died on the outside about a year later.

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    Good management cant help bad luck....place I worked last 8 years was a madhouse ...everything was unsafe,workers mostly crazy....the business next door was all new ,safety everything,meetings,inductions ,the works.....They had three fatals in about two years....two young management trainees ...one fell from a cherrypicker..with safety harness on...,the other was standing beside a forklift under repair ,and the repairman ran the mast up into overhead wires.They had moved it out into the street under the wires.Repairman killed too....All young guys.

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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Good management cant help bad luck....place I worked last 8 years was a madhouse ...everything was unsafe,workers mostly crazy....the business next door was all new ,safety everything,meetings,inductions ,the works.....They had three fatals in about two years....two young management trainees ...one fell from a cherrypicker..with safety harness on...,the other was standing beside a forklift under repair ,and the repairman ran the mast up into overhead wires.They had moved it out into the street under the wires.Repairman killed too....All young guys.
    Those "accidents" don't sound like bad luck. Being born stupid could though maybe be called "bad luck".

    Re this thread title "What-happens-if-someone-dies-accident-your-shop" is it intended to be about money or due care?

    Many shops, even though they have a sign at grinding machines to wear protective glasses, this gets ignored. Same with those that don't buckle up when driving. "Accidents" only happen to other people seems to be a firm held belief.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Jeez, with that form for logic then "government" is responsible for EVERYTHING, even the good stuff
    I am just pointing out how absurd the "safety" schemes are. For most people in western countries driving will be the single most dangerous thing they ever do, yet most government's do not implement adequate safety schemes to stop the carnage.

    I have always said, if a private company owned the road networks and was responsible for issuing licences for driving, the government's would by now have the managers in jail for life for not complying with the state in questions OHS laws. I can not think of any other practice maybe other then war that results in so many deaths and serious injuries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RC99 View Post
    I am just pointing out how absurd the "safety" schemes are. For most people in western countries driving will be the single most dangerous thing they ever do, yet most government's do not implement adequate safety schemes to stop the carnage.

    I have always said, if a private company owned the road networks and was responsible for issuing licences for driving, the government's would by now have the managers in jail for life for not complying with the state in questions OHS laws. I can not think of any other practice maybe other then war that results in so many deaths and serious injuries.
    Are you sure?

    Obesity vs. Smoking: Which is More Dangerous

    The top 1 causes of death

    Drivers or roads to blame?
    Most Dangerous Roads In The World 218 - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    "Accidents" only happen to other people seems to be a firm held belief.
    Not trying to be a smart arse, but you do realise that most people know and are friends with more than one other human being, hence statistically in a group of 10 people say, your way less likely to get injured than some one else you know in the group, ergo whilst accidents don't always happen to some one else, proportionally they sure tend too! humans naturally pick up on this and hence the not happening to me belief.

    Equally man kind has not evolved to be top of the food chain on this planet by not taking risks, thoes risks naturally don't always have favorable outcomes.

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    Car crashes are often referred to as MVA or Motor Vehicle Accidents but our CHP states there are no accidents as most are "at fault" scenarios where one or more parties made clear and avoidable mistakes.

    Most reports by CHP include violation of basic speed law as when you hit something you were driving too fast to avoid hitting it.

    For the just above things they were not accidents.

    One would normally look up inside before raising the forks high on a lift.

    Failure to do so outside is sloping simple awareness.

    Machine failure is usually due to incorrect use.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Equally man kind has not evolved to be top of the food chain on this planet by not taking risks, thoes risks naturally don't always have favorable outcomes.
    There are risks and then there are "risks". Some sports are also much more dangerous and hazardous than others. Personally I believe man evolved to the top of the food chain by being smarter and more innovative rather than taking risks.

    What happened to the first people to find out which plants were lethally poisonous? I'd prefer to be the guy that lived to tell the tale and climb up the food chain rather than be buried below it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Quiring View Post
    Car crashes are often referred to as MVA or Motor Vehicle Accidents but our CHP states there are no accidents as most are "at fault" scenarios where one or more parties made clear and avoidable mistakes.
    It also looks as if it very much depends on which country you live in

    List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia

    Germany would seem to have good drivers.

    Driving fast on the German Autobahn - english - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Not trying to be a smart arse, but you do realise that most people know and are friends with more than one other human being, hence statistically in a group of 10 people say, your way less likely to get injured than some one else you know in the group, ergo whilst accidents don't always happen to some one else, proportionally they sure tend too! humans naturally pick up on this and hence the not happening to me belief.

    Equally man kind has not evolved to be top of the food chain on this planet by not taking risks, thoes risks naturally don't always have favorable outcomes.

    i agree risk risk is important. To the winners , they get the spoil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    i agree risk risk is important. To the winners , they get the spoil.
    Perhaps a risky financial decision with the chance of a good payoff but not risking my arm to save 5 minutes while working.

    Then I think about all the tree climbing I did as a child the the risks that entailed. I probably wouldn't have given that up, so maybe I'm full of shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    Perhaps a risky financial decision with the chance of a good payoff but not risking my arm to save 5 minutes while working.

    Then I think about all the tree climbing I did as a child the the risks that entailed. I probably wouldn't have given that up, so maybe I'm full of shit.

    My Dad was a salesman most of his adult life. He was very good at it, too. That caused one of his rivals in the office to ridicule him whenever he got a chance, since he often missed his quota. He told me about this.

    One day, the rival got angry at my Dad and yelled at him in the office with several of the staff present, including some ladies. He said" You know, you're full of shit!". My Dad, unfazed, merely smiled at him and responded. "Well, there's a little of it in the best of us". That got a laugh out of the whole crew and the rival guy never said much to him after that.
    Last edited by Newman109; 10-11-2018 at 05:40 PM.

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    In 1976 I was working for a small construction company that built concrete grain storage. The company was started and run by a farmer. 100% of the employees were farm kids who grew up in the farming community. We did our work the way we all had done all our lives. We were kind of fly-by-night in that regard, but we worked very fast and effectively and the boss was making a lot of money very fast. We were very well paid for the times and we all got tons of overtime. During the height of any construction season of the 3 years I worked for that man, I was putting in 70-80 hours a week and I had more money than I knew what to do with.

    We had a bad accident that year and 3 men were killed. One of them had just been married for a week, and another had a baby 2 weeks old. It was a terrible thing to have happen and we were all absolutely stunned. The boss shut everything down immediately for 2 weeks and after we buried our friends we went on a major restructuring of the way we operated. Of coarse OSHA was involved, but because those were different times, they were more of a help than a hindrance. The boss also hired a retired guy who had been involved with safety issues in construction for a very long time. Overnight we went from a fly-by-night, seat-of-your-pants operation to a rigorously structured one with safety as the number one priority. We went from not having seen safety equipment to having state-of-the-art gear that we used every day.

    OSHA and workers comp ensured that the relatives of those who died were compensated fairly and I know for a fact that that 2 week old baby girl ended up getting a college education. We didn't know anything at the time of that accident about how restrictive OSHA can be and at least at that time, they gave us a lot of useful help. The old safety guy we hired was the big difference though and he stayed with us for the rest of that season. He really went above and beyond helping us get squared away and still stay productive. To this day I practice some of the things he taught us that were just good, old fashioned common sense. Simple things like eye protection, but which were just ignored by us up until then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    must you convert every topic into how great you think Denmark is? It just makes you look ridiculous.
    I wonder if the "Denmark Tourism Board" believes "Any publicity
    is good publicity" ?...

    Seems it's all about "Google Hits", "Bouncing times" and such things....

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I wonder if the "Denmark Tourism Board" believes "Any publicity
    is good publicity" ?...

    Seems it's all about "Google Hits", "Bouncing times" and such things....
    Seems to keep you occupied

    Ever been anywhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Seems to keep you occupied

    Ever been anywhere?
    Did you ever do anything?

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    Just stop it already!

    Doo to the thread's subject, I don't want to close it.

    It would be nice if a few of you could learn to agree to disagree!



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    Think Snow Eh!
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    To get this back on track, I worked in a large shop from 1972 to 1993. During that time 5 people died in industrial accidents. Many more had serious injuries. The equipment was old and poorly maintained. When a death occurs OSHA gets involved and hands out massive fines. Then the company's legal team gets the fines reduced, many times 1/4 or less of the original fine. Now we have to promote safety so we play safety bingo. All 850 people in the shop get a bingo card and for every day without a lost time accident a number is called on the pa in the morning. They figure they need the shop cleaner so they have the golden broom award. They walk around on Thursday and inspect the departments and give the cleanest one donuts Friday morning. I come into work and find the brake don't work on a 10 ton overhead crane. They are pressing the up button on the pendant to make it stop while lowering the load. I tell the foreman and he says they are to busy to have me repair it. I get the safety director and he makes all the people in that department wear hardhats. There are many more story's like this. Workman's comp keeps increasing rates so they find a new company that denies all claims. The injured employee has to get an attorney and sue to get paid. Most people couldn't afford this so they went back to work hurt.


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