What type of management system would be appropriate for a small business "going bad"?

What type of management system would be appropriate for a small business "going bad"?

and when I say "going bad" I don't mean financially, that side is quite good for now (with lots of room for improvement), by that I mean people are less and less serious about their duties/work ethics.

Here is my original question from another topic.

And to answer @awake:
No I'm not the shop owner, I'm "second in command", I'm trying to program parts, run them in and leave production to other employees.

The problem is, most of them, except one, are not the types I would like them to be so I could do my job (program parts) and leave the production part to them.
They are either willing to work but limited (knowledge, skills, ambitions, understanding of cnc machining), or just used to be sloppy all the time in their private life so they only pick up their game only for a certain period of time after something bad has happened with clearly their fault (like missing some measurements and sending bad parts to customers).

The shop owner is considering cutting pay for them which I opposed but I couldn't answer him what I would do, or what else I'd suggest, because I don't know.

I think cutting pay wouldnt help, which, I have to say, isn't great for them and complexity of job they are doing, since a lott less qualified people are having similar pays in our surroundings, for example I would compare their paychecks just a tad better than one which office secretary or shoe salesman has, or a mall cashier.

I also think they would just start hiding their mistakes even more and more and more bad parts would get "mistakenly" put amongst good ones and since we are producing some larger series (couple thousands of parts) and some smaller series (under a hundred parts), I think more and more larger series parts would be sent back for reason of production errors. That would be a significant blow as we really don't have time to spare to make those larger series parts all over again and do everything else on top of that.

But since we employed a couple of new employees, things have taken a route for the worse.

I mean, I can't say that people most of their time don't work hard and don't produce enough, because they do and they are almost always occupied on 2 or more machines (if the time of part production is long enough, but there are some other times when they don't, for instance, second shift when they are all alone, or night shift (only sometimes since we introduce in only if necessary).

In short, I would like to be able to do my part of job, then delegate parts production to whoever is in working in my shift and not to worry if things will be measured correctly (or at all).
That way it would be easier to control parts production for me, but if I have to jump from job to job, do this, set that, program this....I've got no time to do anything else, almost, so I have to let them do "their own thing" and hope for the best, most of the time, not always, rarely I have time to help them and check if the quality is ok, all measuring done correctly.

So typically, there are periods when everything seems to be going normally, production is rolling, parts are sent on time...but then all of the sudden we get a number of customer complaints that parts weren't made correctly and we basically shoot ourselves in the foot, have to make them all over again, lose precious time and introduce night shift again...

I was thinking of some kind of peer review system where employees would control other employees (and maybe receive reward if caught mistakes by others?), but I'm really not sure if that's a good idea so I'm asking those who I think are more experienced in that area - you.

Why would that be good/bad idea?
And what would you do instead if bad?

Sounds like you need process control procedures set up and a foreman/ production engineer/ supervisor to implement and enforce them. This may involve a QC department for inspection. At least, more training of your operators to make sure they have the tools an know how to do their job.

[h=2]What type of management system would be appropriate for a small business "going bad"?[/h]

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Dictatorship

I would make a rule no cell phone use on the job site during working time. Tell workers that they will be docked for cell phone use. Playing with cell pones reduces the effort to check quality. Make rules on a sheet for all to see. No Favoritism as that makes all others slack.
Have a job sheet for jobs so there is less confusion of tasks. Tell worker that a normal of bath room time is expected and they should report if they are sick and need more time. It would be good if there was a way to make bath rooms a cell phone free zone.. that would be a good invention.
It is a shame you have to treat workers like children but often that is how it is.

Some times a production bonus every week for the whole crew with it being honest and a good amount perhaps 50 or $100. Workers then will help police the production and scrap because they want that extra money. Be sure it is noted as such on the check, or on the wall notice, good if the wife at home know it is possible.

The boss or a good worker should try the jobs to see that task is reasonable.

Perhaps put up a sign We are often losing money and have to all do better to keep our jobs. New rules are as follows...

Considering cutting pay is not as good as increasing good production and reducing error. cutting pay for some and not all will make the slackers slack even more.

It is not uncommon for a boss to create problems with favoring one worker for some personal benefit..

it is usually better to reward people who do more work and higher quality work with pay raises and bonuses and extra overtime work at 1.5x regular pay.
.
only communist pay everybody the same good and bad, hard working and lazy, smart and stupid.
.
Chinese had trouble many decades ago with not enough food grown under communist system. when farmers were allowed to keep any profits if they grew food over a minimum amount food production went up 400%
.
you cannot fight human nature.

If you want to cut people's pay to save money.. I would suggest you go out in the shop, and crash
all the machines, then throw all the tools in the trash, then take a hammer to any good parts
in process and then cut all incoming stock too short to make the parts... Then fire everybody...

That would cost you less than cutting peoples pay...

Pissing people off and paying them less is NOT how you get them to care more about their job.

Happy employees are good employees, pissed off employees are not.

In all honesty, I'd say the problem starts and ends with you and the owner.. They are
your employees, when they fuck up.. Its your fault..

Country ANGOLA? is that true?

Incentive work.

Also known as "Piecework"

BUT, do it fairly and when they get going above 100% DON'T start cutting rates.

http://www.nonstopscaffolding.com/docs/Bonus System.pdf
Yes it's for bricklayers, but it should work fine for you.

allenp said:

They are either willing to work but limited (knowledge, skills, ambitions, understanding of cnc machining)

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If you have good people who are willing to work, then focus your energy on giving them what they lack. If they lack knowledge, then teach them, then train them, and then equip them. Give them a little bit of control/authority over their work, so that they remain interested in doing a good job.

The work-ethic is perhaps one of the hardest things to "teach." So pick the ones who already have the good work ethic, and then work on building them up.

Maybe, the slackers will see these other's success, and take interest. Maybe. I kind of doubt it though.

But, I would focus your energy on the people with the right attitudes, and willingness to work. Keep the good workers happy with their pay & responsibilities, attrition will take care of the rest of them.

DMF_TomB said:

only communist pay everybody the same good and bad, hard working and lazy, smart and stupid.

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I love the old Russian joke "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work".

michiganbuck said:

Country ANGOLA? is that true?

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I wondered about that myself but, hey, global economy!

As others have said, don't go down the "less pay" road. If you are at least "average" in pay and benefits in your economic area, then what's transpiring here is a leadership issue. Employees have to be trained in proper procedures (whatever those are, and create them if they are not there) and everyone has to understand their part and held equally and fairly accountable. Start with quality: make sure everyone has the proper training and tools to make sure their parts are good and DON'T pass on bad work. Catch defects before they multiply. Then go to productivity; people need to know they won't be punished if they think a job is taking too long and should actually be rewarded if they can come up with ideas to make parts better and faster. Maybe different cutting tools, a new fixture or an entirely different processes. You need to engage them and they need to feel engaged.

You know you've "won" this battle when employees want to show up for work because they feel like they will let everyone else down if they don't show. Also, tell the owner this: If he thinks training employees and giving them proper tools is expensive, he should consider how expensive it is if he doesn't.

Good luck, whether you are in Angola or not.
The Dude

Jashley73 said:

If you have good people who are willing to work, then focus your energy on giving them what they lack. If they lack knowledge, then teach them, then train them, and then equip them. Give them a little bit of control/authority over their work, so that they remain interested in doing a good job.

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I did, I've improved their knowledge in last year and a half by a factor of 5, I'd say. Now I can depend on them and let them start production of parts we have already been producing in the past and we have all the documentation and pictures and efficient programs on how we did it last time. I can depend on them to make changes to programs if there are certain tools unavailable or some changes have been made to part/program/cutting strategies.

The problem with them is, I feel, they are basically just limited. One of them wants to work and does not slack, but just does not understand certain principles and will always do things by feel or even blindly until he gets it right (or he thinks he gets it right, but sometimes it's a total fail). His education is limited, his mental process of cnc machining, I believe is limited, although I've managed to teach him even some CAD/CAM, but still, I feel I've hit the wall with him and I have kinda given up.

There's the other guy, who is really detail orientated and will notice things, almost immediately, even some things I wouldn't notice, or shop owner (who is also very detail orientated).

But the problem with him is that he wants to slack off when he's alone in his shift (unsupervised), or when he's with someone of his kind. Basically when he's supervised he's working very good, but when not, sometimes he makes bull... excuses why he couldn't do a certain thing or why he made so little parts, etc.

He is also lacking education for better understanding of cnc machining and I also feel I couldn't teach him much better than he knows now.

Character no.3 is, unlike those two, very bright and learns quickly, but also, wants to slack off whenever he can. I can't be as critical of him as for other two, since he's virtually still a child (21 years, but mentally still juvenile).

I see him as my helper no.1, but I can't depend on him, I let him do most complex tasks (even though he's still just learning, he'll do them better than those two above), but on the other hand I can't let him to think too much of himself, he might do a significant damage.

And there is character number four, who has only improved so much since he started working, I can't call him dumb, because he's not, but he just lacks skills, he just lacks certain something to do the machinist job properly, to me he sometimes looks lost on the machine, he is making parts for a couple of days (same parts) and then he asks me some kind of dumb question, which annoys the hell out of me (although I don't react brutally honest, but I can't help not to show some kind of emotion when explaining him for the fifth time the same thing I did four times before).

He is also just lazy for measuring and QC, I don't understand why, but when you explain him what to measure and how often, he says ok and seems to be ok with it, after a while I notice he wasn't doing what I told him to, he was just pushing green button and stamping parts out...

On the other hand, he is most dependable when some kind of "dirty" job needs to be done, or boring job no one wants, like hand finish of the parts, hand tapping, etc.

So basically, those are the characters I try to cope with and I've got the feeling we need to somehow put them in roles they are best suited for.

For instance I've had an idea which I suggested to shop owner, for the second type (detail orientated) to be some kind of QC officer which would get bonus for every flaw he finds on parts before they are sent off. I think it could be a good incentive for him since his main motive in life is money.

Which is totally opposite for character no.1., (well, everybody needs and wants money, but not everybody wants it primarily). I can tell that he wants to do a decent job and wants to learn, it's just some kind of stupid limitation he can't overcome in his head, that for every good move, he makes at least one bad move too, often even two.

I really can't figure out a role for him, since he has a lot less potential than character no 3. (bright young boy), but much better work ethics. He also sometimes gets lazy measuring parts so he's been a culprit for more than once when we got angry customer call back for parts with flaws.

Anyways, the shop owner did not agree to make character two QC officer, as he thinks he'd slack even more and work less for more pay (which actually does sound reasonable, but to me it seems pitty to have his talents wasted like this).


I hope you'd understand our shop mechanics better now that I explained that all to you in detail, so maybe I can get a more precise answer on my original post.

For further explanation and details I will be watching your answers, and thanks for them in advance.

Btw, no I'm not from Angola (that was just a stupid registration move, I did not watch what I clicked), I'm from Croatia (Europe).

I would say the problem lies with management, you need to set examples which may be hard. After reading this thread I do not see any simple answer. At my shop we have the same problem with some people being lazy or less motivated. Some people you just can't train which is sad but some just lack skills who can help out in the long run once you find their skill set. I would rate all your employees from the best to worst. I would focus on the best employees and use them to help motivate the others that need work. If you can get one or two people on board with what the company needs then things will get better. Someone mentioned incentives which would motivate me on doing a better job. I think you need rules and you as a owner/lead man need to set a good example of following those rules. If you have employees that bring little to no value to your company then you need to remove them and find a replacement.

Only four workers then perhaps tell the owner that you should be running a machine also..If you are not 85% busy..

You can't cut people's pay. Their efforts will decrease far faster than their pay does.

If you have overpaid people you can only grin and bear it or fire them.

Sometimes firing one bad apple helps. If people see a guy doing no work and not getting fired or reprimanded, they will quickly also do no work. Nobody likes to be the chump.

Some people can work independently and some people you have to sit on. That's just how it is.

As much as every manager dreams of having only superstar employees that work independently, quickly and perfectly, the skill of being a manager is to put people into a position that plays to their strengths and minimizes their weaknesses. And sometimes you have to fire someone to do that.

The hardest employees are the talented but lazy young kids. There really isn't anything you can do about them but set them free. By 35 they'll probably have their act together, but you can't force that maturity on them now, and you'll break your heart trying.

The diligent but limited employees are easy. Put them on something that's not too thinky but that still has to get done.

Before you try to whip your employees into shape, you owe them some serious training. They should be formally introduced to the standards and work habits expected by their employer. Those that do not respond to training should be replaced. Some form of regular quality control should keep track of poor, or excellent work. Expecting other employees to spot and correct poor work will not work, unless that is their full-time job. A bit of Big Picture training will help motivate most people to do their best for their employer. Contrary, or troublesome employees are more trouble than they are worth, unless they are the boss. Regards, Clark

Forget about personalities and focus on rules, production, quality and output.

michiganbuck said:

Only four workers then perhaps tell the owner that you should be running a machine also..If you are not 85% busy..

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i run the machines all day long, thats why i dont have much time for anything else.

there are 4 cnc operators, 2 trainees (who know next to none I cant count them yet), owner who jumps in when needed and I (and three other persons doing non-cnc related stuff).

Bobw said:

If you want to cut people's pay to save money.. I would suggest you go out in the shop, and crash
all the machines, then throw all the tools in the trash, then take a hammer to any good parts
in process and then cut all incoming stock too short to make the parts... Then fire everybody...

That would cost you less than cutting peoples pay...

Click to expand...

That was really funny, Bob, with more than a kernal of truth. Thanks for the laugh.

allenp said:

i run the machines all day long, thats why i dont have much time for anything else.

there are 4 cnc operators, 2 trainees (who know next to none I cant count them yet), owner who jumps in when needed and I (and three other persons doing non-cnc related stuff).

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Is the shop breaking cutters, making to much scrap, not putting 85% of paid time on the job, have to much overhead, bidding to low... how many machines are paid off.. how much is needed to pay machine payments and rent of floor space..Does the owner have a gambling habit or spends like he is rich. Do the machines have to run around the clock to pay for themselves and you cant get that much work. Are the workers playing with cell phones?

HELP WANTED​

Employees will perform demanding work requiring skill and knowledge and must hustle to meet production schedules.

Pay will be commensurate with gum-chewing slacker behind the counter at the mall and may be cut across the board at the whim of management if employees fail to achieve the standards set by management.

Not intending to be a smart-ass but that's what the situation sounds like after reading your post. It sounds like the boss is getting exactly what he pays for, a mix of hard working but limited individuals and brighter but poorly motivated individuals.

Quality costs, and the type of employee you need, bright AND motivated is a premium product that costs more.