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  1. #41
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    Sorry as you can tell my spelling is not good. In the future I will however work harder to not misspell my own job title.

    By way of explination for my inability to spell I'm told I have a cognative learning disability called disgraphia that effects ones abality to spell and handwriting but does not neesicarily mean I'm uh mentally slow ...I will wait for other posts to prove my slowness of wit ^^

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cross View Post
    I didn't go into full detail.

    For $45/hr and up I want to see experience in these things:

    True Lights out machining, and sound knowledge of all the things that come with running multiple jobs unattended for up to and over 24hr periods (leaving a job running on a vmc when you go home does not even kind of count).
    HMC fixture building, from design to completion, modular and dedicated/permanent
    Good control knowledge, ie knows how to make and register your own M codes, Macro B programming, G10 data writing, in process probing, tool life management
    Multi pallet/FMS experience

    For lathes- Gantry loaders, single and twin turret twin spindle lathes with live tooling.

    Much better then average programming skills and solidworks skills. Lots of reverse engineering and problem solving here.

    There is so much more, it would really come more down to figuring out exactly what the candidate can ACTUALLY do, and work on training for the rest, attitude counts big time!

    I like your shop thread, from what I can tell I'd say you'd likely be in the $35range. But maybe you are an FMS and robot master?
    Uhh, yea. Your above "job description" is a whole lot different than your original statement of: "A guy that can do decent programming, drawing/design, troubleshooting etc is $35-45/hr"

    Bye-the-way, I am the robot!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RebHawk View Post
    What exactly is a "machinest".
    It was ME 5 years ago! When I finally made the big-leagues. I had an office, with a desk, and a plaque on my door, and my own business cards. Life was great! I was Bill Lawrence Lead "Machinest" at bla-bla-bla-bleee-bla!
    YES! They misspelled it on the damn cards!!! I was soo pissed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Uhh, yea. Your above "job description" is a whole lot different than your original statement of: "A guy that can do decent programming, drawing/design, troubleshooting etc is $35-45/hr"

    Bye-the-way, I am the robot!!
    No its not. I didn't mention what equipment it was for, you just jumped to to conclusion it was for machines you knew how to run.

    BTW the below is not about you, I don't think you are an egomaniac.

    I've had to hire and fire about 5 hot shot guys in the last two years that thought they were gods gift to 2 axis lathes and 3-4 axis vertical mills, I put them on a twin spindle lathe with live tooling and robot loader and they freeze up, same with the multi pallet hmc. All of these guys were capable of making the parts I gave them, on the machines they were familiar with, and would just do them in several operations. But for these guys to realize they actually needed to learn new methods and techniques was beyond their comprehension, and so they didn't last. I'm having much better luck with guys in their late 20's and early 30's who have some work experience but are eager to try new things, and more importantly don't have such a huge ego.

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    I agree with "find out how much they are worth to your business and pay them accordingly." However, you may also want to contact some local staffing companies to see what these positions are worth in your area.

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    Here is something to think about. In 1998 I was getting 19.85 a hour. Today I get 19.50 a hour. In 1998 gas was a dollar a gallon. Milk was one dollar a gallon.
    Today gas and milk are four dollars a gallon. With inflation 19.85 goes to 28.37. That is what I should be getting. This is why the middle class is so small.
    You have poor people and rich people. Credit card debit is at a all time high. Just trying to stay afloat is a full time job. If we don't put high tariffs on stuff coming into the U.S. we are going to be in big trouble. Look at countrys like Germany That have high wages and high tariffs. We need to protect ourselves.
    The problem is with all of the bought politicians that make sure our chinese companys make millions. I know this doesn't help you much. But just think about what all your costs are, and try to give your workers a LIVING wage. We all win then. The company makes money. The worker gets money to spend. More products are needed. More jobs are created. Things trickle up, not down. Most working people do not have a savings account. They are spending everything. You don't get millions in a off shore account by spending it.

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    Up here in Ontario, Canada (in the Golden Horseshoe to be more precise), a good operator makes between Can$13 to Can$17.
    I have a friend with mixed CNC/manual shop and he pays Can$ 18 to Can$ 20. All the above have benefits and some sort of retirement plans (not great, but still).

    I think the key here is "good operator". That employee could become better at what they are doing over time. And if just talked nicely, be flexible to their needs (came in late because kids need to be dropped off to school and picked up from school), sickness in the family, etc, they tend to stay with a company. Both employees and employers realize that. Some other companies pay better, have better benefits etc. , but in the end flexibility is key. Some people are slow learners, but once they become good at something, they tend grow deep roots in the company.

    I know giant PRIVATE corporation whose CEO / owner said : "my company goes home everyday around 5 pm "(due to flexibility they offer). "My job is to bring them back for next day." Food for thought ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cross View Post
    No its not. I didn't mention what equipment it was for, you just jumped to to conclusion it was for machines you knew how to run.

    BTW the below is not about you, I don't think you are an egomaniac.

    I've had to hire and fire about 5 hot shot guys in the last two years that thought they were gods gift to 2 axis lathes and 3-4 axis vertical mills, I put them on a twin spindle lathe with live tooling and robot loader and they freeze up, same with the multi pallet hmc. All of these guys were capable of making the parts I gave them, on the machines they were familiar with, and would just do them in several operations. But for these guys to realize they actually needed to learn new methods and techniques was beyond their comprehension, and so they didn't last. I'm having much better luck with guys in their late 20's and early 30's who have some work experience but are eager to try new things, and more importantly don't have such a huge ego.
    I totally agree that lots of guys get set in their ways, and become very closed minded (for lack of a better word). I can relate to your above comments. I must have went through 5 guys in their 30's-40's at my last place of employment, who were all as you describe. We had a seat of software on the shop floor, I would spend a few days with them getting them acquainted to it. Give them a print for a simple part, then find them finger-CAMing at the machine. I could not convince one single guy to look at it as an opportunity, rather than a hindrance. So I would go program the part, walk out and hand them a thumb-drive, and they would get pissed because "I'm almost half-way done now! What did you do that for?!". And I was always the idiot, because I was usually younger than them.
    If I had to pick one thing to say that I don't like about owning my own shop, it would have to be the fact that I don't have time to learn new things. I am learning a lot. Don't get me wrong. But, my machining skill-set is definitely getting stagnant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cross View Post
    I didn't go into full detail.

    For $45/hr and up I want to see experience in these things:

    True Lights out machining, and sound knowledge of all the things that come with running multiple jobs unattended for up to and over 24hr periods (leaving a job running on a vmc when you go home does not even kind of count).
    HMC fixture building, from design to completion, modular and dedicated/permanent
    Good control knowledge, ie knows how to make and register your own M codes, Macro B programming, G10 data writing, in process probing, tool life management
    Multi pallet/FMS experience

    For lathes- Gantry loaders, single and twin turret twin spindle lathes with live tooling.

    Much better then average programming skills and solidworks skills. Lots of reverse engineering and problem solving here.

    There is so much more, it would really come more down to figuring out exactly what the candidate can ACTUALLY do, and work on training for the rest, attitude counts big time!

    I like your shop thread, from what I can tell I'd say you'd likely be in the $35range. But maybe you are an FMS and robot master?
    Heh ,I can do some of this.
    No twin turret twin spindle lathes with live but I can build cncs, machine vision, robot controllers and FMS cells from scratch.
    Now the big question, do you get serious snow where you are and lots of open space in the summer to run the dirt bikes?
    Darn, this sounds like fun.
    Between you and Motion I'm thinking I should pack up my bags and move out west.

    Sometimes I think it would be so nice to just have a "real" job where you do everything you can in the workday and somehow leave it behind when you go home.
    Then I wouldn't just go home seven days a week and kick the wife and kiss the dog, wait ... is that right?

    Bob

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    I can't do any of those things, but I'm willing (and wanting) to learn! See you folks in 3 years when SWMBO has her PhD!

    This thread has headed in a markedly different direction...


    As to what they should be paid, well, as has been said, really depends on what you make and what the market is like where you're at. I was doing 3-axis programming before I graduated, but when I did the shop I was at reneged on what I was told I would be paid, so I quit and went someplace where I was, for all intents and purposes, an operator. At that (rather large) company I was making $23/hr base rate plus $1/hr shift differential and pretty good benefits, to work in the most difficult cell in the building. Kept dual-spindle/triple-turret lathes (and barfeeders) running, and sometimes ran a 5-axis mill-turn (or multitasking, whatever you want to call them), machine. I wasn't there long enough to do edits at the machine, but I changed inserts, deburred parts, changed offsets. Wanted to get into setups, but they didn't seem to have the time. Had to keep the machines running! I quit and took a pay cut because it was so damn boring (6000 part run, over a week of three shifts ). Now I'm back to 3-axis milling, but I get to do the programming, setups, choose what happens, when, how fast and why, and I'm much happier.

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    Reading all of these claims of $15 and up for operators is lowering my confidence. I started as an operator (read button pusher) with no exp. at 8.50 and moved up to setup and running the inventory system not 4 months later. I train and supervise people too. Its been a year total for this company and i make 11.00 now. A factor is we just have simple production machines no mills or lathes, and another is i'm still green with just a year of exp. but how do you guys think im doing?

    Another crazy thing, my dad works in the same company running the only two cnc lathes. He does all the operating, setups, and programming, has decades of experience etc. and makes $17.00

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    Sound likes you and your dad you quit and find new jobs.


    You and your dad sounds like could easily make 4 more dollars an hour

  19. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by everything View Post
    Reading all of these claims of $15 and up for operators is lowering my confidence. I started as an operator (read button pusher) with no exp. at 8.50 and moved up to setup and running the inventory system not 4 months later. I train and supervise people too. Its been a year total for this company and i make 11.00 now. A factor is we just have simple production machines no mills or lathes, and another is i'm still green with just a year of exp. but how do you guys think im doing?

    Another crazy thing, my dad works in the same company running the only two cnc lathes. He does all the operating, setups, and programming, has decades of experience etc. and makes $17.00
    Not to hijack this thread. But if you are around the Madison area send me a PM I do need a new guy in the shop. (that is if the owner didn't hire one and not tell me)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    Not to hijack this thread. But if you are around the Madison area send me a PM I do need a new guy in the shop. (that is if the owner didn't hire one and not tell me)
    Sadly im in IL i have to update my location

  21. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    ...Then I wouldn't just go home seven days a week and kick the wife and kiss the dog, wait ... is that right?
    Sadly, for some people it is...

  22. #56
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    Over here,
    The average CNC operator is making $17-20/hr (maybe more if you learn fast). And a programmer is about $25-35/hr (maybe even 40 if you be the "unicorn").
    Benefits, health care, vacation pay all standard. with some flexibility with work hours. not all shops are like that though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by everything View Post
    Reading all of these claims of $15 and up for operators is lowering my confidence. I started as an operator (read button pusher) with no exp. at 8.50 and moved up to setup and running the inventory system not 4 months later. I train and supervise people too. Its been a year total for this company and i make 11.00 now. A factor is we just have simple production machines no mills or lathes, and another is i'm still green with just a year of exp. but how do you guys think im doing?

    Another crazy thing, my dad works in the same company running the only two cnc lathes. He does all the operating, setups, and programming, has decades of experience etc. and makes $17.00
    Start looking for better jobs. This IS crazy.

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    $16 bucks for starters. A buck an hour more per 6 months until 20, then depends. We give a little more holidays than usual.

    $16 bucks is what it takes to live here comfortably, have a car and be decent. Paying people less means they won't have a car and not show up on time. If you only keep what's left over (everyone good has left), then you will end up with weak people that couldn't find a job somewhere else.

    For why many trades are nearly all mexican, they are all that they can find work in, and many many of them brings down the price of those trades. Call it a republican virtue, it's nice to have slave priced labour. Not good for the country though.

  25. #59
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    Looking for Nice Bridgeport Series 1 or 2 Mill with Prototrak Control

    Thanks,
    Maury Cohn
    1 800 888 4312
    [email protected]

  26. #60
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    Like someone already said, It doesn't really matter what the rest of the country pays their employees. Wages and cost of living are a very local thing.

    I use to travel for work. I was all over the USA, in a different factory every day. Everyone pays different wages it all depends on your geographical location. Where cost of living is high workers need higher pay than places that have lower cost of living. Common sense stuff.

    I think since the economy crashed 5 years ago wages have gone down.

    I have always felt the more I KNOW the more valuable I am to the company I work for. I have always worked hard to learn all I can learn. If I am the smartest or most valuable person in the company I will never get laid off and I will get top pay. I have been retired for 10 years. I can stay home and make 3 times more $$ in a week than working a job but I don't have much motivation these days. I would rather go camping and stay gone for 6 months.

    Tennessee is a right to work state with NO unions, businesses run more efficient and can afford to pay workers more. It is rare to find someone that is not making $20 an hour.

    Arizona is a right to work state too but it is rare to fine someone making more than minimum wage and the cost of living is 3 times more expensive than TN.

    Illinois is a Union state workers are brain washed into thinking they need a union just like other union states. Companies use that to their advantage. When work gets slow and the union goes on strike the company lets the workers stay on strike until work picks up. An old company trick, keep your employees poor, too poor to move or go looking for another job. You have guaranteed workers.

    OK so how much should you pay your workers? Enough to make them happy! If your machines are not making parts you are not making money. Think of the worker as your partner not the enemy. If your worker makes you $65 per hour give him 20% of it. Don't be greedy. Unhappy employees work slow and make bad parts.


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