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When processes are never written down

316head

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Location
finland
How common do you think it is that a machinist never take any notes or information regarding the manufacturing process but instead keep everything in his head? In a common scenario the foreman gives you a print and says "make X pieces of these" and you will quickly realize that they have been done before by a different person but all you can find is some sloppy program that barely has any tool information in it. So practically you have to figure everything out by yourself in case the guy who had that job in his head has left the building.

Where I used to work it was a complete wild west with no rules and quality standards and I was the only one putting information down to make the jobs easily repeatable. And I know a couple of other places where this trend continues. Why won't many shop owners demand their workers to have adequate documentation/setup sheet on recurring jobs?
 
What sucks is when I'm the one that did the job before, and I'm the one with all the info in my head,
and I STILL can't figure out WTF I did..

Its just so easy when the job is done to toss the parts in the box and throw the file in the cabinet..
The job is done, on to the next thing... No time to take notes.. Who needs them anyways (apparently I do.)


Working across multiple years and multiple employees and possibly managers, I'd say you've got a
99% shot of not knowing what the hell is going on.. Where I used to work, when we moved the shop,
digging through old fixtures and crap... I found TONS of fixtures for parts that I had made (and made new
fixtures).. No record of it anywhere. My fixtures were better anyways, or so I tell myself.
 
Because the profession is gone. The most valuable thing of discussing operations should be revived.
 
It's a law of nature that machinists are always in a hurry, but unless the end is near, I -will- sit at the computer at the end of the job and write down the main points/possible pitfalls with hyphens in a text file next to the program and other data lest I forget it all. Also a webcam is handy in taking quick snapshots of special tools you will need the next time.
 
How common do you think it is that a machinist never take any notes or information regarding the manufacturing process but instead keep everything in his head? In a common scenario the foreman gives you a print and says "make X pieces of these" and you will quickly realize that they have been done before by a different person but all you can find is some sloppy program that barely has any tool information in it. So practically you have to figure everything out by yourself in case the guy who had that job in his head has left the building.

Where I used to work it was a complete wild west with no rules and quality standards and I was the only one putting information down to make the jobs easily repeatable. And I know a couple of other places where this trend continues. Why won't many shop owners demand their workers to have adequate documentation/setup sheet on recurring jobs?

If a process is important or complicated then this should be written by "the company" unless they want it to be done/made any old way by whoever is doing it.

If someone figures out a logical and economical way to do something the company would have to be pretty stupid not to write it down. Clever machinists don't grow on trees and they rarely stay at the same company forever.
 
The only one who is screwing themselves is the company for letting it happen. If that one employee who hides everything leaves your forced to re engineer it all. It is an old school habit and it is dying very fast. Most good companies document everything especially if your AS9100 certified. If you work for such company that lets employees do this get ready to fight a long battle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My way of thinking is my valuable asset. Keep me happy and I will keep you happy. We all learn from each other. I will show any one anything I know and we all take notice of how the others do it. But I cannot stick around and hold someones hand or make someone think how I think. That being said everything we do here is a one-off. If I was setting up production then different story. I would document.
 
I'm guilty of this. Luckily I still have a good memory. If someone tried to follow my steps they'd be hopelessly lost.

It's no good writing things down if you can't find them. A filing system would be just as important as the notes themselves.
 
Its called tribal knowledge. Look how well tribes and cultures have fared that don't write things down :D

I try to convince the team that job security comes from good company performance and financial health which is hurt if we can't consistently and efficiently make stuff to tolerance/criteria.

Still, its an ongoing battle, if for no other reason that not writing it down is less effort. Thinking about it, whats needed is a way to measure/reward if process info is being recorded, drawings getting corrected etc....,measure/reward is how to change behaviour
 
Agree 100% with Gordon.. Management or the engineer should make a process or crew sheet on a job..Very often the Boss is not sharp enough to make a process directions file for making a complex part or assembly.

Machinist has enough to do figuring it out and often is not authorized to make company policy.

QT Gordon: [If a process is important or complicated then this should be written by "the company" unless they want it to be done/made any old way by whoever is doing it.]

and I might add "Write down something not safe for everybody or OSHA approved"


I do think a production job should have a crew sheet so a new guy, or even the regular guy knows what is the drill.
 
Since I'm the only one here (other than p.t. help when I'm busy) I write down all of the important info on the back of the prints.

Usually it's the tool list, cycle time, stock length if I'm bar pulling and set up notes (stock stick out, workholding etc.).

On complicated or involved set ups, I'll snap off a picture of 2 with my smart phone.

Since I'm basically a 1 (.5) man show I constantly look for ways to be more efficient, and make change overs as smooth and quick as possible.
 
Bobw's (2nd poster) experiences matched mine exactly.
Anyway, we have an application that might be interesting for some.
It's $100,perpetual licence, no ads, free 60 day trial (No credit card details!).
There is a video on our website. If you watch, it should tell you if it's worth downloading.
It was originally designed to keep track of soft jaws (soft jaw catalogue).

Get a grip on soft jaws! - JAW-CAT
 
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This happens at our shop. I don't take notes or write many things down. The other guy out here keeps programs stored from whatever he does. Most of the time I can write a new program for the same part I've done before he ever finds his program and figures out what he did.
 
I"m a one man show too. Most things are really simple, all my programs include tool list, but on the complicated, multiple setup kind of parts, I take pictures the first time I ever make a part, save that in a .doc file as a mfg process plan. That will list all specific tooling needed as well as the name of each program to run in what order.
Usually I take the picture of each setup on the last part, that way I have a photo of the working setup. I have some parts with 5 major operations and knowing to verify which leg is slightly longer or thicker on the angle iron makes a difference 3 opps later. It really helps to have a note reminding you how to set a rough blank in the vise to ensure a good part.
 
it takes discipline to create a
.
1) order of operations list
2) setup file (always have like page 2 of 3, so you know total number of setup pages and if missing one you got to look for it)
3) stamp label fixtures and setup file should list fixture number and where located
4) work log (basically any problems are listed and what to look out for to prevent them the next time part is run)
5) have backup files in case originals are "lost"
.
what i get is a 3 ring binder setup books with over a dozen pictures (sometimes hundreds of pictures none labeled) and often none are labeled so hard to say what is what operation. i have even seen setup picture showing other parts on a pallet next to machine and assumed that was East direction so that would determine orientation of 8 fixture separate components. then i find out i am 180 degrees off as picture is closeup of old machine no longer in the building that was installed 180 degrees from current machine
.
actually i have complained to programmer as he often prints out screen shot from CadCam program but printout has no
1) part number
2) operation number
3) program number
4) his name and date so if got questions who to ask
.
the worse thing is working with others who take no notes and dont have any discipline trying to figure out what they did from what they left. i have even seen programs created that dont even list what tool is to be used.
.
i put it in same category as machinist who reset boring bars or tool comp way off normal settings and lets tool go back into tool changer. then next guy scraps part. like a land mine waiting to go off
 








 
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