When to purchase a cnc from an econimcal point - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    As an example many years ago on another board I got awarded a job and the RFQ poster listed the price when openly asked. Somebody ripped the guy for going to China and he replied it was sourced in the USA. Then everybody starts saying some 40 year old virgin living in his mom's basement with a lathe working for $15 an hour must have got the job. A few of them calculated what my shop rate must be after they all gave their estimates of the parts cycle time. Most people were in the 3-4 minute range. I was running them unattended from 12 foot bars that lasted 3 hours in a time of 45 seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    Happens all too often when people are stuck in there own heads.

    I think there are a lot of people that never were in the habit of pushing things to the limit, so they never learned where the breaking point is on feeds and speeds. They also never think outside the box. Recommended feeds and speeds are just a reference point, a lot of materials can be run way faster than what the machinery handbook says.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I think there are a lot of people that never were in the habit of pushing things to the limit, so they never learned where the breaking point is on feeds and speeds. They also never think outside the box. Recommended feeds and speeds are just a reference point, a lot of materials can be run way faster than what the machinery handbook says.
    I was always taught push it till it breaks, then back off 10%.

    Have a few operators here that when they have any problem their solution is to back it off a little. Then the next one comes along on the same job and backs it off a little more. Eventually what was supposed to be a 30 minute cycle winds it's way into being an 1.5 hours. Then we go back, put everything back where it's supposed to be and start over.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I think there are a lot of people that never were in the habit of pushing things to the limit, so they never learned where the breaking point is on feeds and speeds. They also never think outside the box. Recommended feeds and speeds are just a reference point, a lot of materials can be run way faster than what the machinery handbook says.
    Yup, Yup.
    And, I'm finding these leetle new "2 guys in a 2 car garage" start up shops all doo the same thing.

    They buy a Haas mill and/or lathe, and use mastercam to get a cycletime, bidding accordingly.

    Everyone is doing the same thing, and it's a race to the bottom, on who can pull their hourly rate
    down lower than the "other guy".

    I have suggested to some of these shops, to "think outside the mastercam box" and try proven older techiques to shorten cycle times.

    Like:
    1. getting multiple tools (lathe work) in the cut at one time.
    2. putting operators on piecework, many times when I stop in would I see a machines "end of cycle"
    light blinking, no one around.
    3. re-arrange shop to put tools at machines, less run around time setting up.
    4. make quick change pallets, tool holders etc.

  5. #24
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    Pushing the machine and tooling is one way to achieve better cycle times.

    But also making setups bullet proof so it just runs and runs unattended...

    Having jobs that can just go in and run when machines open...

    Having a job that can run while the machinists are busy on more touchy work is nice.

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