Where are all the Machinists - Page 7
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 7 of 22 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 427
  1. #121
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    I never understand this. Why not just show up on time? Is it really that hard to show up on time? I get things happen, and being late every once in a while is no big deal. But if you show up late everyday, to me thats a problem. Plus if I have one guy coming in late all the time, it's not going to take long until another and then another comes in late. Then some of them aren't going to be staying to get their time in. It's easier to nip it in the bud right away than having to try to change a culture.
    There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach, but when the same philosophy is applied to a few more things the end result is resentment and poor culture.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    927
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1063
    Likes (Received)
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bakrch2 View Post
    I work for a veryveryvery large company who will pay close to $40/hr for a good manual machinist (located in central NJ).

    I have no idea what the job advertising looks like here, but we cannot seem to find anybody to replace the 5 we already have who are nearing retirement.

    My resume is out there. Linkedin and Indeed are blowing up with messages on a daily basis ... but as many others have mentioned nobody will pay. They hit you with their software package, and inevitably there will be something on the list that any candidate might be weak in and this is leveraged against them. Doesn't matter that I can sit in front of anything new and be productive in a short amount of time. The game is rigged from the start, so we either move on to another career or rust away in a high paying corporate atmosphere. It always makes the most sense to train from within and play the numbers game until you get somebody who is competent and motivated to learn.

    Had a promising opportunity recently. Show up for the interview and they were paying quite a nice SALARY for a programming/setup position. High production shop, high pressure environment that is micromanaged (in a good way). Mandatory overtime. The hours they were asking were ridiculous, would be better off at a lower hourly rate with overtime.

    Just about every opportunity out there seems to be trying to dupe us in one way or another.
    On the flip side. I have offered to pay what people are requesting if they can prove they have the skills they say they do. I will list a set of goals, and if they can prove they can do the work within a certain time frame(ideally a month), they get the wage they want. If not, it will be adjusted accordingly. I have yet to have someone take me up on it. We have been burned by people with nice looking resumes that can talk the talk more than once. You give them a job and they don't know their head from their ass.

    My point is, the duping happens on both sides. For every company that's trying to screw an employee over, there's 5 employee's trying to screw that company over.

  3. Likes bakrch2, dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  4. #123
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1417
    Likes (Received)
    1487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Waitstaff at good places can earn money, your failures in math I cannot make up for.

    Owners at machine shops want to underpay

    I ran into a guy[some years back] who was running 3 Haas vmcs 3rd shift and the guy was paying him 9 bucks an hour. I was paying my most junior guy that at the time

    This is the point here, some owners want perfect employees handed to them on a platter, and pay them nothing.

    IF you can and will pay, the employees are out there, but be realistic.

    Or get off your butt and train them yourselves
    What about the servers working the crap hours when the restaurant isn't busy? Or the ones only getting 20 hours a week? Or the ones that work at "regular joe" places where a 20% tip is only $7 (or whatever)....

    OK, so that is not different than the 'unicorn' jobs out there paying $40/hr. Yes there are some, and probably a few in the not so high cost of living area. I could get a job at one of those places maybe, but that is the exception not the rule.

  5. #124
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    On the flip side. I have offered to pay what people are requesting if they can prove they have the skills they say they do. I will list a set of goals, and if they can prove they can do the work within a certain time frame(ideally a month), they get the wage they want. If not, it will be adjusted accordingly. I have yet to have someone take me up on it. We have been burned by people with nice looking resumes that can talk the talk more than once. You give them a job and they don't know their head from their ass.

    My point is, the duping happens on both sides. For every company that's trying to screw an employee over, there's 5 employee's trying to screw that company over.
    I actually like this method.

    10/10 would engage this if offered to me.

    Edit: I should also add that usually the most capable machinists are filled with doubt. It's the folks who are SO SURE of themselves you need to worry about, but the hiring process pretty much forces us all to puff out our chests.

  6. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    927
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1063
    Likes (Received)
    596

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Or you can not worry about it

    You just invented half a dozen problems in your head that have nothing to do with getting the work done

    Plenty of incompetents standing by the time clock to punch in at 7:00am


    you can have them
    If you're the one coming in late, how did I invent the problem? When one person comes in late constantly, then other people are going to do it. It's a fact. Then instead of knowing Jimmy is going to make up the work at the end of the day, I have to make sure special Ed and tweedle Fred are putting in their time as well. When Jimmy could just stop being lazy and show up on time.

    Quit trying to justify being too lazy to show up on time. I would rather take an incompetent person that wants to try and learn than deal with someone with your shit attitude. If you gave me that shit attitude you and your toolbox would be promptly moved outside.

  7. Likes 360427 liked this post
  8. #126
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1417
    Likes (Received)
    1487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    If you're the one coming in late, how did I invent the problem? When one person comes in late constantly, then other people are going to do it. It's a fact. Then instead of knowing Jimmy is going to make up the work at the end of the day, I have to make sure special Ed and tweedle Fred are putting in their time as well. When Jimmy could just stop being lazy and show up on time.

    Quit trying to justify being too lazy to show up on time. I would rather take an incompetent person that wants to try and learn than deal with someone with your shit attitude. If you gave me that shit attitude you and your toolbox would be promptly moved outside.
    Been there done that. One day the boss decided we could no longer make up our time at the end of the day (punch in 6 minutes late, work 6 minutes late) and if we punched in at 6:04 we were getting docked to 6:15. I said ok, from now on if I am running late I will sit in my car until the next 15minute interval because I sure as hell am not working for free. As you can imagine, the situation deteriorated from there. I got fired some months later because I didn't give a shit. Funny thing, after a few months got a call asking if I wanted to do some part time programming for them. They ended up hiring me back for $2 more per hour and the "being late" was no longer an issue.

  9. #127
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,070
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    543
    Likes (Received)
    3230

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Ya that is how it works.

    I interviewed for a job one time and it seemed like a good fit, but of course when pay came up it was "well you haven't been doing this for a couple years (I was doing more of an ME job at the time) so we'd have to start you a little lower blahblah"
    Back in the day working for the man I was a quick learner and found job hopping produced the best pay increases. I was a quick learner and applied myself, my skills far surpassed my time on the job. I started out running Swiss automatics and I knew about a lot of shops through the grapevine including ones that went out of business.
    I used one of them to pad my resume with more time on the job and said I was 4 years older. No one seemed to check date of birth, just your name and address. I worked in a sheet metal shop when I was only 16 when it was required to be 18. I showed my driver's license when hired, office girl just verified my name and address and handed it back.

  10. #128
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Been there done that. One day the boss decided we could no longer make up our time at the end of the day (punch in 6 minutes late, work 6 minutes late) and if we punched in at 6:04 we were getting docked to 6:15. I said ok, from now on if I am running late I will sit in my car until the next 15minute interval because I sure as hell am not working for free. As you can imagine, the situation deteriorated from there. I got fired some months later because I didn't give a shit. Funny thing, after a few months got a call asking if I wanted to do some part time programming for them. They ended up hiring me back for $2 more per hour and the "being late" was no longer an issue.
    Maybe I have a shit attitude as well, but when "Jimmy, Ed and Fred" can work at my level ... they can be 5 minutes late, too.

  11. Likes Mike1974, Fancuku liked this post
  12. #129
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1417
    Likes (Received)
    1487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bakrch2 View Post
    Maybe I have a shit attitude as well, but when "Jimmy, Ed and Fred" can work at my level ... they can be 5 minutes late, too.
    That's the thing too. There was only a couple guys that could do the same level of work as me, and one of them was very slow at it, and I don't consider myself to be all that fast. BUT I rarely made mistakes and I was always very good at troubleshooting things that weren't working (we were a job shop that made parts, dies, special machines, etc).

  13. Likes bakrch2 liked this post
  14. #130
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    190
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    62
    Likes (Received)
    80

    Default

    Employers have spent the last 70 years destroying unions, 40+ years raiding pension funds to the point they're no longer trustworthy, and eroding the relationships that used to tie employees to them. The reality is that the backlash today is not just Millenials. Despite what some people here think, Millenials (and now Gen Z'ers) are not any less hard working than any of you are as a whole. The difference is that the landscape has changed significantly. People are tired of working for the same (or less) money than they did 10, 20 or 30 years ago as wages have stagnated; paying more for health care as the US government allows large organizations to reap more profits in the US than anywhere else; going broke to get themselves or their kids through college because poor systemic planning means that college degrees are getting more expensive while also providing less utility.

    IMO, the employers who will be successful in retaining talent in the next 10, 20 or 30 years are the ones who realize that flexibility for individual employees and productivity are not cross purposes, and design their organization to maximize both. If you look at most of the large tech companies, this is exactly what they do already. Pay employees to volunteer in the community (during working hours), allow them to get as much work done from home/a coffee shop/their relative's hospital room as possible, use work hours to have them train on the newest technology, allow flexible schedules so people can minimize commuting time and cost...now some of these aren't necessarily possible in a manufacturing environment, but many of them are. None of them are possible if a company just wants to chase dollars and not develop its employees, and companies that do that will be stuck in the cycle of crappy employees who don't make them much money and leave every few years (or months).

    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    Mentor for 1089 in Hightstown, NJ. You?
    11306 and 11257 in Princeton.

  15. #131
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    That's the thing too. There was only a couple guys that could do the same level of work as me, and one of them was very slow at it, and I don't consider myself to be all that fast. BUT I rarely made mistakes and I was always very good at troubleshooting things that weren't working (we were a job shop that made parts, dies, special machines, etc).
    Yeah, I've interviewed in shops where I felt I would easily gain a mentor or two.

    Here though, they really bought into Mazaks (conversational only, no EIA option) and are crippled now that they are all being replaced by Fanuc controls. I had to write macros and organize them sorta like a Hurco Ultimax control just so anyone else would be able to touch a CNC in here (and many other locations). It's all relative. The work here is painfully simple.

  16. #132
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    2,691
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    194
    Likes (Received)
    1972

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AARONT View Post
    If you're the one coming in late, how did I invent the problem? When one person comes in late constantly, then other people are going to do it. It's a fact. Then instead of knowing Jimmy is going to make up the work at the end of the day, I have to make sure special Ed and tweedle Fred are putting in their time as well. When Jimmy could just stop being lazy and show up on time.

    Quit trying to justify being too lazy to show up on time. I would rather take an incompetent person that wants to try and learn than deal with someone with your shit attitude. If you gave me that shit attitude you and your toolbox would be promptly moved outside.
    You invented the problem, and all the imaginary problems that stem from it

    The competent do the work

    The incompetent count the hours

    I have had guys who came in in the middle of the night, got the work done and left it for me in the morning

    I am not saying it never causes a problem, but I have other things to worry about

    IF you are more worried about what time I show up than what I am doing when I am there, you are not worthy to be my boss

    And no one has been worthy for nearly 30 years.

    And mostly for years before that

  17. Likes Greg White, Big B liked this post
  18. #133
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,937
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    148
    Likes (Received)
    1428

    Default

    My favorite on time deal is when you are working 10-14 hour days and you show up 5 minutes late and get your ass bitched out. I can understand if you work in a production environment where there is a full staff changover and its critical for people to be on time... but when you are working relatively independently and working massive hours who gives a fuck if you show up at 6:55am vs 7:05am.

  19. #134
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    2,646
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1210
    Likes (Received)
    3462

    Default

    Punctuality goes hand in hand with professionalism.

    Al least that's what I was taught. When I was an apprentice, showing up 5 min late would get you fired.

  20. #135
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    293
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    70
    Likes (Received)
    178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizingkid View Post
    My favorite on time deal is when you are working 10-14 hour days and you show up 5 minutes late and get your ass bitched out. I can understand if you work in a production environment where there is a full staff changover and its critical for people to be on time... but when you are working relatively independently and working massive hours who gives a fuck if you show up at 6:55am vs 7:05am.
    Problems I see is that 5 minutes will turn into 10 minutes and then 15 minutes down the road. Other co-workers see this and they start showing up late because the person/persons showing up late all the time are not being punished. Second showing up 5 minutes late and then going to the locker room to put on your uniform turns into 10-15 minutes late.

  21. Likes AARONT liked this post
  22. #136
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    11,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    50
    Likes (Received)
    8915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Punctuality goes hand in hand with professionalism.

    Al least that's what I was taught. When I was an apprentice, showing up 5 min late would get you fired.
    That's retarded. There are cases where being at work on time is a hard requirement. Places that run a shift schedule for example. You being late causes someone to have to work past their quitting time. Or in a production environment where you are part of a chain that will be disrupted.

    But, for many jobs, the start time is mostly irrelevant. If the folks in the office can come and go as they please, why can't the guys on the shop floor?

  23. Likes Mike1974, gustafson, SeymourDumore liked this post
  24. #137
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    DENMARK
    Posts
    2,787
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3964
    Likes (Received)
    13271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Punctuality goes hand in hand with professionalism.

    Al least that's what I was taught. When I was an apprentice, showing up 5 min late would get you fired.
    Turn up late for work here and you'll be fired. You will get a warning but ignore that then you can look for another job.

    You're right. Meeting on time is professionalism.

  25. Likes Larry Dickman liked this post
  26. #138
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    11,666
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    50
    Likes (Received)
    8915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
    Why does this forum always get personal?? Westly my Dad died in 1981 when I was 31 and I ran the company as president after that, working sometimes 24 hours a day to keep the doors open to pay my employee's and satisfy my customers. That was 37 years ago. I will try to refrain myself as you are wrong again. I would say I have accomplished a HELL of a lot since then.. I have reported your post !
    I'm offering a perspective as both an employer and a former employee of a company not owned by a relative. That's a perspective you are not qualified to offer.

    I'm off to vote in some more socialist politicians...

  27. Likes Ries liked this post
  28. #139
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    15

    Default

    Professionalism is important, but in a context where a few minutes late does not matter are you willing to give up one of your best guys just because your "believies" say so? Maybe he/she came up in your shop and started being a little tardy once he was comfortable a few years in. Congratulations, you just trained your competition as the flexible shop down the road will happily scoop up the talent.

    In such a competitive market with not a whole lot of money to throw around, I think something like this can be overlooked (something free $$$ to set you apart from other employers) if there are no real consequences to production.

    It's an opinion anyway.

  29. #140
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Connecticut
    Posts
    14
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Punctuality goes hand in hand with professionalism.

    Al least that's what I was taught. When I was an apprentice, showing up 5 min late would get you fired.

    I agree! I have run my own shop and currently am working for The Man again. But I see it all as part of promoting a good company culture. As a very productive employee, I don't mind leading by example. I like the idea that nobody gets to be a rock star because it means we're all on the same footing. I find that the folks that have the toughest time making it to work on time, are often the ones for whom it should be a slam dunk. Manufacturing is a team sport, and having the whole team on the field when the game begins makes things easier for everyone. Especially in cases where Sam's hanging out waiting to put his widget together because Little Jimmy's not in yet and the box of duplex nuts he makes is empty. In most shops I've been in that really bang out the work, it's not too hard to see who the core clutch players are within the first couple weeks.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •