Who are you buying electricity from, and what are you paying? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    My utility doubled the meter charges to $20 a month for residential but lowered the rates. They did this because too many solar panels on local houses. meant a lot of people were not paying their fair share to maintain the system. It also reduced the payback for excess power generated. No one can make money buying at retail and then selling at retail.
    Bill D

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    One reason I moved where I did is the small power co-op. We buy direct from Bonneville dam and nobody profits. I can run everything in my 6500 sq ft shop balls out and heat my 3400 sq ft 1926 house at 72 degrees with electric heat and my bill for both is under $150/mo


    Lord almighty.
    I can burn through $150 worth running my Fadal and air compressor for a weekend here.... and thats on a residential rate plan....

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I'm on a co-op, which was a blessing 25 yrs ago, but now I think that I am paying more than I would be if I was on Edison. I think that we are in the $.14 (tax, title, out the door) area now?








    I just called the riggers, and we are heading towards Portland tomorrow.
    I'm @ $2000/month.
    Try to find me 12K' or more by mid next week when we git there eh?

    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    You'll have to build your own. The pot growers have bought and leased every available inch of potential shop space in Oregon and Washington. I was in contract to buy an 11k sq ft building that was a machine shop. Pot growers swooped in and offered $40k more and cash.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Bernie allows a choice up there ?
    Ain't seen much of Bernie lately. He's too busy touring the country to hang out near home.

    And no, we've never had choice, and no, Bernie never had nothin' to do with that anyway.

  5. #25
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    My base rate is $.139/kWh.

    When you add in all the other crap and do the math I'm at $.308

    I cannot wait to GTFO of Ct.!

  6. #26
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    Anybody other than Californians have a tiered system? Unless you are fortunate enough to be able to use a co-op when I was in California all the big providers SCE, PG&E, SDG&E had a tiered system where the more you used the more you paid per KWH, kind of the reverse of any normal way of doing business. A machine shop even the small ones would hit max rates which when I lived there a dozen plus years ago were around 40 cents a KWH. Many times max rate was hit when you went 4x baseline and baseline is about as much energy as a one bedroom apartment at the beach (not much need for heat or A/C) uses.

  7. #27
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    Here in southwest Virginia, we pay about 12 cents/KWH, from American Electric Power (an Ohio based utility that used to be the largest burner of coal.)

    My shop is only 400-amps service, so I was able to get in as a "small industrial" rating from AEP back in 2001. Otherwise, "larger"" ratings put you into the demand-charge BS, which can increase your power bill considerably from normal. I think demand charges must not apply to small industrial ratings from AEP...because I have never seen one, even working a few hands on two shifts before...thank goodness.

    Guys, there is no free lunch. The moving away from decades of dirt-cheap fossil fuel-based electricity to more "green" sources is going to hit America right in the pocketbook.

    ToolCat

  8. #28
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    Rates in NC are controlled by the state Utilities Commission. AFAIK there are no alternate sellers. IOW, in exchange for public control of rates, the power company receives a franchise for their service area. Duke Energy is our provider, and Duke covers about 2/3 of the geographical area of the state and probably closer to 3/4 of the state if measured by population served.

    The biggest factor here for a small shop is the demand charge. If you can stay within the demand limits of a Small General Service (SGS), then there is no demand charge. If your demand kicks you over into the Medium General Service (MGS) category, then you have a monthly demand charge of $6.23 per kW (not per kW-hr) which stays in effect for 12 months. Demand is based on max usage in any 15 minute period.

    We've had the SGS service classification since we moved into the current shop in 1990. To maintain the classification, we cannot exceed 35 kW demand twice, or 50 kW demand once in any 12 month period.

    IOW, you could pull 100 kW for 10 minutes and it wouldn't reset the demand section of the meter, but you could pull 51 kW for 16 minutes and the meter would reset. That 16 minutes would result in a demand charge of $318/month for the next 12 months in addition to the cost of power usage. The cost per kW-hr would actually drop by about 1.9 cents but this would be more than offset by the demand charge.

    For example, say you're using 10,000 kW-hr per month. The cost decrease would save you about $190/mo but the demand would add the $318, so the overall bill would go up by $128/mo for the same actual use.

    This can really bite you if some single set of circumstances happens to kick the demand up to, for example, 100 kW for 15 minutes. At that point, the demand charge is $623/mo. For the same 10,000 kW-hr usage, your total bill increases by $433/month.

    The actual rates are about $25/mo basic connection and 8.5 cents for a SGS and 6.6 cents for a MGS. All commercial services are subject to demand, regardless of single or 3 phase. There is an additional charge of $8/mo in the basic connection fee if the service is 3 phase. To be clear, it is usage that determines SGS or MGS classification and not the ampacity of the service. Our service is 208V 3 phase 800 amps and we've stayed in the SGS class, but a shop could have a 200 amp service and their demand could put them in the MGS class.

    For a real kick in the butt, I can go 12 miles north into a 2 or 3 county area that's served by a rural co-op, and the demand charge for a 3 phase service is about $15/kW starting with the first kW. There's a couple fairly large manufacturing plants in that area and I guess they get some property tax breaks and such that somewhat offset the high electrical costs, but a small shop that gets no such breaks could easily have power bills of $2000/month or more.

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  10. #29
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    We have PG&E here in the Bay Area except for a few select cities that have their own electric power agencies. Just looked at my current shop bill and the published rate is $0.1927/kwh. with all the taxes and other charges, my effective rate is almost $0.22/kwh. We have 400A 3 phase service with no demand charges and our rate is Small General Service.
    How many of you guys want to come to Cali and our business friendly environment and start up a shop???

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan from Oakland View Post
    We have PG&E here in the Bay Area except for a few select cities that have their own electric power agencies. Just looked at my current shop bill and the published rate is $0.1927/kwh. with all the taxes and other charges, my effective rate is almost $0.22/kwh. We have 400A 3 phase service with no demand charges and our rate is Small General Service.
    How many of you guys want to come to Cali and our business friendly environment and start up a shop???
    That seems awful cheap for Cali from a large provider. Do they not have a tiered pricing plan or is your shop not using much electricity? When I was under the wrath of SCE in Riverside, California my bill averaged out to almost $.40 KWH and that was with no demand charges. I was using about 2,000 KWH a month.

  12. #31
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    Tiered system here in VT, too.

    I'm in a small rural coop service area and pay $.09/kWh for the first 200kWh, then $.21 thereafter, with a monthly service charge of $11.40. The idea being to provide enough juice for everybody and encourage largish users to conserve.

    The State, via the Legislature and the Public Utilities Commission, has set the goal of 90% renewable "fuel" by 2050. That's for electric, transportation and home heating. It's gonna be interesting.

  13. #32
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    Dualkit- our average is about 2500KWH/month. No demand charges. Dan


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