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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Not sure how any of that is germane to the discussion.
    Wearing a mask is like wearing a steel toe boot or safety glasses.
    Obey, or GTF out.

    Requiring the vaccine IF it isn't federally mandated tho? No Fine Way!
    What's next ( or the line as I intended it in the first place )? Castration perhaps?
    Just what EXACTLY gives you the right to dictate how anyone should consider dealing with this shit?
    "The goddamn Germans got nuthin to do with it!"

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    On a more serious note, the issue of mandatory vaccines in the workplace once again raises an interesting issue. If the vaccinated are protected, how can they be harmed by un-vaccinated coworkers? It would seem that the un-vaccinated could only infect each other and they might face possible repercussions if they were absent from the workplace for an extended period.

    And where does it end? Will employees also be required to be vaccinated against HPV and HIV on the chance that Human Relations might take on additional meaning?

    With each passing year the vaccine industry creates even more vaccines to add to the ever growing list. Once the "Covid" precedent is created employers could potentially demand that all employees receive every single available vaccine.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Where does that power of enforcement end? Smokers, Religion, Snowmobiles?
    A friend of mine is not allowed to ride a motorcycle, snowmobile or play basketball as a condition of his employment contract and it totally legal and the norm for what he does.
    Bob
    You're friends with Patrick Mahomes?

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    "The goddamn Germans got nuthin to do with it!"

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    On a more serious note, the issue of mandatory vaccines in the workplace once again raises an interesting issue. If the vaccinated are protected, how can they be harmed by un-vaccinated coworkers? It would seem that the un-vaccinated could only infect each other and they might face possible repercussions if they were absent from the workplace for an extended period.

    And where does it end? Will employees also be required to be vaccinated against HPV and HIV on the chance that Human Relations might take on additional meaning?

    With each passing year the vaccine industry creates even more vaccines to add to the ever growing list. Once the "Covid" precedent is created employers could potentially demand that all employees receive every single available vaccine.
    Somewhat related. Years ago we hired a new guy, he was only there a few weeks then disappeared for a while. Showed up again and announced he had been diagnosed with TB. Don't know if was true or not.

    I am against being mandated that I need to get a vaccine, but people should show some personal responsibility if they are sick or whatever. Always hated working at places that despised you for calling off sick, so people would come to work sick and just spread it to the whole shop.

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  7. #104
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    A good sized hospital nearby has a plan they pay all employees $500? to get vaccinated. hard to believe medical workers would not have already done it. Now other workers will wait until their employer pays. Why do it early for free? No idea if the payment is retroactive or not.
    Big companies learned decades ago that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. They invite the visting nurses to come and give everyone a free flu shot etc.
    Think how cheap the vaccine shot is compared to lost time of covid employees and the cost and time to hire replacements when they die. Easily bankrupt a small shop if two employees with specific skills go out for a month even if they live.
    Bil lD
    Bil lD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And where does it end? Will employees also be required to be vaccinated against HPV and HIV on the chance that Human Relations might take on additional meaning?
    LMAO, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    Last week four of us from work attended a funeral at a local church. Out of about 125 people we were the only ones masked. Of course most of the people were seated as family groups but there was still a lot of hugging among strangers. I'd guess the lack of masking is a reflection of rugged western individualist character traits. Or maybe it's just hard to fit over a neckbeard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    LMAO, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    Last week four of us from work attended a funeral at a local church. Out of about 125 people we were the only ones masked. Of course most of the people were seated as family groups but there was still a lot of hugging among strangers. I'd guess the lack of masking is a reflection of rugged western individualist character traits. Or maybe it's just hard to fit over a neckbeard.
    I think it's simply a realization that the ^%$#@! vaccine will never arrive.....

    And back to the OP, how can your require something that the employees can't get yet ?

    The "working age" people are the last ones that will get it.

  10. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I think it's simply a realization that the ^%$#@! vaccine will never arrive.....

    And back to the OP, how can your require something that the employees can't get yet ?

    The "working age" people are the last ones that will get it.
    In NYS "Essential employees" are towards the top of the list which most manufacturing qualifies as. So I could get it today IF I wanted

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    In NYS "Essential employees" are towards the top of the list which most manufacturing qualifies as. So I could get it today IF I wanted
    ...and if they have it in stock....

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    I have no idea what they have on hand, never cared to look into it. But the QC guy got his a couple days ago so they must not be out yet.

    He also had to take the next day off sick because of a reaction to it, so there's that.

  13. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    "The goddamn Germans got nuthin to do with it!"

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    On a more serious note, the issue of mandatory vaccines in the workplace once again raises an interesting issue. If the vaccinated are protected, how can they be harmed by un-vaccinated coworkers?
    Because there will be so many that do not get vaccinated in this country we probably will not reach herd immunity. This thing will keep coming back filling up hospitals and morgues for a long time. A city in Brazil had 75% get it in the spring and they still did not achieve herd immunity. It keeps raging on and reinfecting those that have already gotten it. Other countries like Australia, New Zealand have been been able to get control of it before the vaccines became available, with the vaccine things will probably be fairly normal till they let a dimwit from an infected country in.

    Why the Brazil variant is really worrying scientists This link is from MSN and the target will disappear in a couple of days.

    If you have listened to the tin foil hat people about all the terrible things in these vaccines, read the "Machine Design Magazine" Jan 2021 pages 24 and 25 on what is in the vaccines and why the very fragile strands of mRNA have to be protected by the extreme cold temps. They do their job for a couple of days then disappear, the immunity lasts longer than the immunity from getting the virus. Also lists the ingredients and amounts of ingredients.

    If an employer required it he may be looking after visitors to the shop, family members of other employees, the few that can not get it for specific health reasons. Putting this whole business behind us would be so nice, BUT (fill in here). As I said before I will not be making and posting a rule but from discussions with the employees none have any reservations about getting vaccinated against C19 and i expect all will get it as soon as available.

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  15. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    You're friends with Patrick Mahomes?
    LOL, no.
    A few superbowl rings to one, another that ice skates and stranger still a motorcycle rider of some fame.
    I was just floored to learn that such restrictions on personal life existed but evidently SOP in the employment contract for these guys.
    Get paid the big bucks and the employer does not want them hurt during the off season but I had never thought about that.
    I invited you, the wife and dog up north to go play.... not sit by the campfire on the lake.
    I think some may cheat the rules a bit. Poke a competitive person enough.....

    Looking back if someone had by fluke been hurt that would have been bad, bad, bad BOB.
    If I get broken no big deal if 2-6 months. Those guys it's a paycheck and future.
    I am a bad influence but by luck all above had some fun to remember and nobody ever broke a fingernail.

    I have done the same on a larger scale with shop employees. Doing so I put them at risk and have seem crashes of oh-shit.
    Is this good or bad as a boss? Do I put all in a padded rubber room or do I encourage them to run wild and crazy?

    How much you rule over employees because you sign the paycheck is a question I still do not have a good handle on.
    In past I have been from one extreme to the other at times.
    Vaccination, now... sigh.
    Just make sure if a boss it is not your personal view or bias alone that makes the call and that personal view is so hard to step back from or remove from the equation.
    There is always another side that is not yours in things like this.
    Bob

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    I remember a few lines in a Steinbeck novel talking about a commercial chicken raising operation. The farmer takes good care of his flock, keeps them warm and well fed, has the vet look after them etc. Does he do this because he loves his birds? No he does it so they stay healthy and grow fat to be sold for more money.
    Bil lD

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    Full disclosure.....I will get the vaccination when it becomes available for me to do so.....but I am not exactly excited to do so.
    I havent spent alot of time dwelling on the time line because I figure there is nothing to be gained by arguing over who should be eligible first....I think most ppl can agree that Elderly (especially those in assisted living situations) and front line health care workers should be first in line.....emergency responders etc as well.
    I got looking at the info on the state health departments web site trying to find out when my Dad might be able to get vaccinated and something stood out to me. When the state of Wisconsin and the state of Minnesota (states i am familiar with) issued "Safer at home" type of orders many people were exempted from the order. People (like myself) in what was considered critical manufacturing, those in food production, meat processors, energy sector etc.....the Wal Mart employees stocking shelves, truck drivers, the kid working the register at the gas station.....all these ppl were labeled as essential employees.....for the most part none of them are anywhere on the list to be vaccinated yet. The state of Wisconsin has 3 or 4 groups to be vaccinated....they are currently still at group #1. The health of people who were once labeled essential is secondary to many "professionals" such as teachers who have and continue to perform many of their duties from home. Admittedly I havent been paying too much attention to the news related to this because there is nothing I can do to change it.
    The message being sent is that it is important for someone to do your job.....not neccesarily you though.
    Edit: i stand corrected....those in food production are in the 2nd group in Wisc.

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  19. #114
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    Lots of heat but limited amount of light. ;-)
    Check the web...
    Yes, your employer can require you to get a COVID-19 vaccine, the EEOC says - MarketWatch

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  21. #116
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    I’m not so sure I’ll be running out and getting the vaccine. My experiences has been limited, but everyone I know PERSONALLY who has gotten the vaccine has had worse reactions than those I know PERSONALLY that contracted Covid. All the people in both groups were in their 60’s in good health.

    This however ignores the people who died of completely un related issues, but still died of “Covid”.

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    From what I have read, injecting mRNA outside the cell is akin to dumping oil on the outside of your engine in hopes that some of it will 'get in' somehow. Some will say "Oh, are you some kind of immunologist?" Answer: no but I have a brain to think with.
    The first item on the list of do's is fix your goddamn diet. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you've got something to study up on: comorbidities and the reduction thereof. You won't find any of the answers in standard medical practice, especially wherever the md's have to follow standard protocols. When they all think the same, then somebody isn't thinking.

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    So far we're still being told that this so called " Vaccine " Doesn't stop anyone from catching and likely still spreading the virus. " You must still wear a mask, and live in fear, blah blah blah"
    It's only at best an immune booster that "should" reduce your symptoms if you do catch it (welcome to the 80% who caught it without the vaccine and never felt sick either) and with a still unknown effectiveness duration, maybe months to a very hopeful 2 years at the very best...

    I'm in no rush, y'all can take as many as you want to.

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  27. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ss_user View Post
    Check the web...
    Lots of possibilities and maybes there.
    Love legal-speak:

    U.S. employers can generally mandate that their workers get vaccinated against COVID-19, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission suggested in recently released guidance, confirming what many employment-law experts had long speculated.
    Not sure how many employers with 15 or less employees want to go down the legal route to make the first case law all on their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    From what I have read, injecting mRNA outside the cell is akin to dumping oil on the outside of your engine in hopes that some of it will 'get in' somehow.
    There is a lot of misinformation out there so it is hard to put the right dots together to inform ourselves. Do not think your engine analogy is a good one, as most engines are sealed to prevent the ingestion of abrasives and other contaminants. The two ways into a running engine are its air and fuel filters.
    I think an injection of a vaccine is by passing our skin and going directly into the lymphatic soup and maybe a couple of broken capillaries that feed the cells in your shoulder. They are not pouring this stuff on our skin, which would be a closer approximation of your illustration.

    A second way to look at the efficacy is to look at the reviews of the applications for use of the drugs. The info for the stage 3 trials do show their relative effectiveness. This one is beyond me and I am taking others word for it. I have read some news reports mentioning the paper work given to the regulators but it is not the same things as reading it your self.
    Third indication is Merck quit the two vaccines they were working on citing the fact that the two roads they followed were no where near as effective as the 2 front runners. So they wrote off the billions they spent on their own efforts. Merck did say that their research did result in two possible drugs for treatment of patients that already have C19.

    My first reservation was I did not want anything that would permanently alter my own DNA. My looking into it found that the mRNA of these 2 first vaccines never makes it to the cells nucleus. After my wife and I got vaccinated this article came out in that I mentioned earlier. "read the "Machine Design Magazine" Jan 2021 pages 24 and 25 on what is in the vaccines and why the very fragile strands of mRNA have to be protected by the extreme cold temps. They do their job for a couple of days then disappear, the immunity lasts longer than the immunity from getting the virus. Also lists the ingredients and amounts of ingredients." That article has a number of typos that my secretary pointed out but it was written for technical folks like engineers and machinists and it did make me feel that I made good decision.

    I did see an example of your illustration about pouring oil on the outside of an engine Friday. Put out a fire on a Kumotsu bulldozer and there was a lot of oil soaked debris in the belly pan that made it tough to put out. I guess people miss sometimes when filling the engine and hydraulics, then there are some leaks. Fairly new looking machine, that will cost a small fortune to fix now.


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