What's new
What's new

Workers Comp injury, layoff quandry

pgmrmike

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Location
Plantersville, TX
Im a small shop, 1 employee plus me. Work has slowed to the point that I was planning on letting him go. No pick up in work in sight, it all just stopped.

So here is the problem. Thursday he was loading a part and hurt his back. I told him if they are too heavy I will load them for him. He said "no, it hurts but I can do it". ( my mistake ). He worked the rest of the day then called in Friday, back hurt.

This morning he texts that his back is so bad he has to go to hospital.

( I will put aside my skepticism- he hasnt worked a full 40hrs in a month, always some reason he cant work though if he is truly hurt I feel bad for him )

So now I guess I am trapped? I will now have my first workers comp claim, and out of work. I have always heard if I lay him off ( as planned before injury ) I can get in trouble.

What are the chances of this, in your opinion? Options? I can prove I am very low on work and of course, will not hire to replace him.
 
State to state may have different rules. See:

texas workers compensation law - Google Search

I would have a chat with your Texas Workers Comp. people, and then with a lawyer that does that kind of work. If you have a lawyer ask who does that kind of work.

Paul

Texas Workforce Comission is the first place I looked. It appears as if its all up to whether its interpreted as retribution or not.
 
Texas Workforce Comission is the first place I looked. It appears as if its all up to whether its interpreted as retribution or not.
I don't see what you'll get by laying him off ? He got "injured" before the layoff so he'll get workman's comp no matter what (as long as they feel it's honest.) So what do you get by laying him off ? Then he can get unemployment after the workkman's comp runs out ?

Why not just wait ? Maybe he'll decide to never come back and you'll have one less pile of paperwork to deal with. Or if he does decide to come back and you don't want him, it's no worse dealing with it then. "Work slowed down, we don't have a position right now ..."
 
I don't see what you'll get by laying him off ? He got "injured" before the layoff so he'll get workman's comp no matter what (as long as they feel it's honest.) So what do you get by laying him off ? Then he can get unemployment after the workkman's comp runs out ?

Why not just wait ? Maybe he'll decide to never come back and you'll have one less pile of paperwork to deal with. Or if he does decide to come back and you don't want him, it's no worse dealing with it then. "Work slowed down, we don't have a position right now ..."

Not sure what you mean by what I'll "get" by laying him off. The layoff was planned BEFORE the injury. In no way do I intend to subvert the law or screw him over. I have no intention of malice in any way. My quandry is that I planned on laying him off, now he is injured, and now if I lay him off ( as planned before the injury ) it will appear to be retribution or a violation of the law ( or ethics )
 
What he is saying is that you GET nothing by laying the guy off, he may not come back on his own so wait and see what happens

Oh ok. I took it wrong. Makes sense. No point in jumping the gun, let the workers comp claim/situation play out then deal with the rest later.
 
Did he know he was going to be layed off? Maybe he saw the slowdown coming and didn't know˙ you were going to give him a lay-off so he would be able to collect unemployment, so he got his own "unemployment".
 
Did he know he was going to be layed off? Maybe he saw the slowdown coming and didn't know˙ you were going to give him a lay-off so he would be able to collect unemployment, so he got his own "unemployment".

He didnt know, but I have no doubt he suspected. I made it no secret that orders were waning and I was concerned. I did tell him over the last couple of weeks ( and i believed it myself ) that it was just a slow patch, but my 2 largest customers recently made it clear they feel it will be slow till at least January. If I had reason to believe it would pick back up in Jan I would just hold on and bite the bullet. But I have serious doubts, and if I hold him that long and it doesnt pick up it will be a serious financial issue for me
 
I was formerly involved in Workers Compensation. All Workers Compensation Insurance Companies have either got an inside legal department or will have access to outside counsel. You could contact your sales representative or perhaps talk to the legal department directly for a reading.

If you lay him off now that he has been injured, there are penalties that arise and it will be viewed as retaliatory, even though you had planned to do so before the incident.

I'm wondering whether he got wind of your intention to lay him off so that he suddenly decided that his back hurts too much to work anymore. It's happened before and back injuries are difficult to disprove.

Good luck.
 
He was working for you when the injury (real or not) occurred.
I don't see where "planning to lay him off" counts in any way shape or form.
If his back is hurt and he want's to milk the system it's doubtful you will ever see him again.
Anywhoo, this is what WC insurance is for and why you pay in.
The big question is will your rates rise and if so by how much? Interested in the answer here.
For me one hit did nothing, zero, nada.
In my state, given your company size once he is healed you do not have to re-employ him but I believe his unemployment claim starts at this date.

If I have no employees and it becomes just me I don't have to carry any WC insurance. Perhaps you would still want to in order to cover you and your state laws may vary.
In your case I could cancel the coverage now and the insurance company would still have to pay out to the ex-employee.

Do you have a company lawyer on retainer? An expense but they do help you sleep better at night.
I find it strange that most will pay an accountant but do not also hire this side.
End of year I expect both of my "hired guns" in my office side by side so we can hash things out.
Bob
 
..................................If I have no employees and it becomes just me I don't have to carry any WC insurance. Perhaps you would still want to in order to cover you and your state laws may vary.
In your case I could cancel the coverage now and the insurance company would still have to pay out to the ex-employee.

Bob

Insurance companies typically do not offer W/C coverage to sole proprietors since they are considered to be working at all times. If a certain company were to offer sole proprietor W/C coverage, it would be at an extremely high premium.

You are correct that the company would still have to pay even if the policy were to be cancelled.
 
i've had some claims. all but one was bogus but they still went through. wc are just dying to pay claims regardless. small ones not noticeable difference in premiums. one large one raised my premium by almost exactly the amount of the claim. Now - if he goes away then you have no employees therefore no wc therefore no premiums and you win this one.
 
Call the insurance company, pay another initial premium and get another policy since as everyone knows, you can't have employees without workers compensation in place.
Yes but wont the insurance co "remember" they might need to raise rates or does going back to them after a break in coverage mean a fresh new start?
 
Yes but wont the insurance co "remember" they might need to raise rates or does going back to them after a break in coverage mean a fresh new start?

It's been a long time since I was in the industry, but It depends upon how you handle your coverage. A wise manager would simply leave the policy in place and without employees would pay only for the minimum premium. That way the experience modification would remain place at the same value.

If you have a policy in place, you would pay the minimum premium if there were no employees for part of the year. At the end of the year, they do an audit and you would pay only for the percentage of payroll for your employee classifications worked for that year.

If you were to cancel the policy completely during the year, there would be an early cancellation penalty.

I seem to recall that the experience modification would follow the insured if he or she were to cancel the policy and then reinstate it. Otherwise, companies with a poor record would cancel and get a standard rate upon reinstatement.

If I owned a shop and expected to have occasional help with say temporary workers, I'd pay the minimum premium and keep the policy in place. That way, I'd be covered for whoever worked for my company during the year.

I'd only cancel completely if I were certain that I'd never hire anyone again.
 
Last edited:








 
Back
Top