Would you hire (or fire) this guy?

Have had a potential employee come by, looking for work.
Quiet, unconventional, unassuming type, fairly tidy, well educated but self-taught woodworker. Gave him a few tasks to do and he has shown me he is capable of good work at a reasonable pace, albeit with a few unconventional ways of doing things. Gave him a few tasks to do with minimal instruction as to what standard I want and - the outcome is well finished and well proportioned. The work is worth its wage.
Few references and those that have employed this chap have mentioned that his quietness is unnerving, he seems to lack confidence and sometimes sabotages his good intentions. Other people who know this guy have been outright slanderous.

Comments?

Greenwud said:

Have had a potential employee come by, looking for work.
Quiet, unconventional, unassuming type, fairly tidy, well educated but self-taught woodworker. Gave him a few tasks to do and he has shown me he is capable of good work at a reasonable pace, albeit with a few unconventional ways of doing things. Gave him a few tasks to do with minimal instruction as to what standard I want and - the outcome is well finished and well proportioned. The work is worth its wage.
Few references and those that have employed this chap have mentioned that his quietness is unnerving, he seems to lack confidence and sometimes sabotages his good intentions. Other people who know this guy have been outright slanderous.

Comments?

Click to expand...

How hard is it going to be to fire him if he doesn't work out? Over here with unfair dismissal laws, lots of small businesses I know think 3 times before starting anyone new unless they are really confident it's OK.

As for slanderous comments, you need to consider the source(s). However, if 3 people who don't know each other hold the same slanderous opinion about someone, it's likely to be more or less accurate. I for example have a reputation for being an arrogant smart-arse. This is accurate..... and I'm happy that way.

PDW

Pragmatism says that this guy won't work out, given that he can only furnish a few references, and feedback is mixed or downright bad. Are his "unconventional" methods value-add, or totally ass backward and unsafe?? No place for poor safety in a wood shop. Hard to tell without any examples. The work is good. At the end of the day, attendance and output are -really- what you're paying the guy for, attitude coming in a not-so-distant third because hey, who wants to work with someone that's miserable to be around?

Even with your reservations, I'd give him a chance to explain his good work/poor references, give him a trial week, see if any of that lack of confidence or sabotage springs up, go from there. I've got no problem with quiet workers, so the guy being silent wouldn't really bug me, so long as he's asking the correct questions when he needs to. How much talking can you do around tablesaws and planers anyway?

Any hand looking for work is going to have a few quirks.

If he can do your work and make you a profit sounds like a go.

Cover your ass ..... take him on 2 weeks probation and ramp up the pressure.

I don't know your set up ,are there other employees? It may be that he is someone who will get on with his work and be fine if it is just you and him but a person who is a bit odd can be very disruptive in a larger shop ,not always their fault but others can take it upon themselves to stir up trouble if they are made to work with someone who does not fit in.

Two weeks? Ninety days is pretty standard here in the US.

Dennis

new guy

Greenwud said:

Have had a potential employee come by, looking for work.
Quiet, unconventional, unassuming type, fairly tidy, well educated but self-taught woodworker. Gave him a few tasks to do and he has shown me he is capable of good work at a reasonable pace, albeit with a few unconventional ways of doing things. Gave him a few tasks to do with minimal instruction as to what standard I want and - the outcome is well finished and well proportioned. The work is worth its wage.
Few references and those that have employed this chap have mentioned that his quietness is unnerving, he seems to lack confidence and sometimes sabotages his good intentions. Other people who know this guy have been outright slanderous.

Comments?

Click to expand...

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he is already working for you i would give him 90 days. you already have experience with him to make your own judgements. some people who give bad references to good people themselves have the problems. i have seen where people with integrity and who hold tolerances are slandered because they don't want to cover up poor quality work and report the bad work. for example if you get a part made on another machine and discover it already is out of tolerance do you report it or do you do your own work on it and let it move further through the shop.
........ i would try the person out and make your own judgements based on your own experiences

Give him some time and try him out!
As he is self-taught, he must be very interested in this kind of work. He certainly will have learned wrong ways. And, there are different habits in every shop how to do certain things. Just look at him how he does it. And if it doesn't fit your idea, quickly show him how you do. At that time, you will see how fast he picks up.
If he is doing nice work worth its money, he can't be completely off. If you show him quicker ways, he will be worth even more.

And if he is odd. Well, maybe the other three that didn't like him are odd too, but in a non-fitting way.


Nick

Is he Māori? I could see that being awkward.

From what you said i would give him a shot, definitely with a couple month probation period. Depending on the context of the slanderous comments(Which you didn't mention), I might still take a chance with him. Plenty of people don't jive well with my personality, and I think that rings true for just about anyone.

At the end of the day, your a business looking to make a profit. If you see the potential to make money with the guy, it's worth a shot. A potential employees conversation wouldn't be a concern to me. If he wants to shut-up and work, then by all means......

Who knows...You might get lucky and get an employee that doesn't give a shit about talking on IPhones and Facebook all day.

The thing about being a "manager" is allocating resources where they are most productive.

So if this guy is profitably productive in niches "A, B , & C" but scuttlebutt from 3 sources indicates he will fail miserably in niche "Z", then you have to decide if you do enough "Niche Z" work that he would not be a good fit, or if his success in the other niches means you can tolerate trying to spend an excess amount of your time holding hands and micro-manageing whenever task "Z" comes up, or doing it yourself. It's just one more profit-loss equation, further analyzed by how the rest of the potential employee pool stacks up.

If the scuttlebutt seems to indicate that given the "wrong" circumstances" he will self-sabotage across the range of work, I would be exceptionally leery, because then it becomes not a matter of managing the work, but managing psychology including in areas of his life that are not work related. You may or may not be equipped or have the time and patience for that.

I once had an employee who when the pressure was on, could start to have accidents. Brilliant but also had self inflicted injuries in earlier years. At one point he trimmed a finger while subverting the guards on a machine.* Over time and in most circumstances he was well "worth" it for competence, dependability, and excellence in most areas & we continued to stick it out. That event got me thinking harder about my role as a "manager" needing to be much more than being a work scheduler, process designer, and machine instructor. Many of us, including me were not trained to be "life coaches" (heck some of us barely have our own lives in order)" or have that separate set of skills once we venture into hiring "non-conventional" employees. Some owners have it naturally and certain types of "non-conventional" employees with thrive given circumstances to suit their quirks, that are managed to avoid situations that will trigger their weaknesses.

Really, that is what management is about, but for "efficiency" it becomes tailored to suit a narrow cross section of "normal" and uses HR tools to weed out those that don't fall in the "norm" that "follow the rules".

*MOSHA fined me and at the time I had a full employee health plan beside worker comp, so there was coverage and compensation within the system, though one is never fully compensated for loss of personal parts.

smt

I would establish a probationary period that is clear to the new employee. Say 90 days so you have enough time to evaluate his skills and demeanor. It has been my experience that a sour employee can really screw things up for everyone. If you value the employees that you have you need to make sure that he or she fits in with everyone else. No one is perfect but harmony in the shop is worth a lot. I had a machinist in the shop that always had someone in his sights and he caused a lot of problems. Now, when I interview, my impression of whether he or she can work well with others is just as important as whether he or she has the skills.

I kinda look at it this way. If you know of him personally and think he is ok but have heard bad things mentioned about him from others, it's a crap shoot.

If you don't know him at all and have heard bad things about him from others, what makes that any different than reading reviews on a product you are interested in buying and the majority of them are lousy reviews?

Do you still buy the product? Just sayin'..........

Later,
Russ

There is an article making its way around the 'net titled "Why companies hate geniuses".

Why companies hate geniuses - CBS News

One of a series of articles by the author, actually. Here's another:
Why geniuses don't have jobs - CBS News


Several years ago, I volunteered for overtime being offered in another department, showed up on Saturday, and was put to work stuffing the information sheet in medicine boxes.

I was in my 40's, it was coming up to lunch, and the young lady next to me asked if was leaving the property and going to a fast-food drive-thru. I said I was, but being a vegetarian I don't care to get involved with meat, fish, etc.

She then interrogated me, and apparently I kept giving wrong answers.

You married?
Ever been married?
Any kids?
You drink?
You smoke?
Any pets?

After giving her the "wrong" answers to all of the questions, her jaw dropped, her eyes opened wide, and she asked me:

"What ARE you, a serial killer?"

And no, I am not a serial killer, and I wasn't about to have her try to fix me up with her mother At that workplace, I had a supervisor express concern that I didn't own a television.

My point being is that Americans are entitled to freedom of association, sometimes that freedom to choose who you associate with (and why) is guided by religious principles, political ideology, etc.

The Amish keep to themselves, so do Hasidic Jews, and many first generation immigrants try their best to keep to groups that comprehend and value mutually-held priniciples.

What passes for "idle talk" for the vast majority of people is considered toxic "nonsense" by many sincere practitioners of various religions.

So the guy keeps to himself, I understand it.

So people get freaked out when a co-worker is quiet and does their job, that behavior I CANNOT understand, those are the folks that need to submit to psych tests.

Greenwud said:

Have had a potential employee come by, looking for work.
Quiet, unconventional, unassuming type, fairly tidy, well educated but self-taught woodworker. Gave him a few tasks to do and he has shown me he is capable of good work at a reasonable pace, albeit with a few unconventional ways of doing things. Gave him a few tasks to do with minimal instruction as to what standard I want and - the outcome is well finished and well proportioned. The work is worth its wage.
Few references and those that have employed this chap have mentioned that his quietness is unnerving, he seems to lack confidence and sometimes sabotages his good intentions. Other people who know this guy have been outright slanderous.

Comments?

Click to expand...

Lets see,

"fairly tidy" +1,

Self taught = the "unconventional ways" your job would be teach him the right way.

"Gave him a few tasks to do with minimal instruction as to what standard I want and - the outcome is well finished and well proportioned." +2

Did what you ask in the proper standard. +5

"his quietness is unnerving, he seems to lack confidence and sometimes sabotages his good intentions."=He has never been taught the right ways to do things and has never had anyone tell him he does a good job.

Teach him the proper ways to do things, build him up when does a good thing and you could end up with a great employe that we all want. The fact that he can teach himself probley means he wants to learn and can be taught proper ways.

90 grace period then sit down and see where you are at. If he is improving then hire him.

"his quietness is unnerving" funny how uncomfortable people get when someone doesn't want to play chatty cathy with them. Heck I would pay extra for a "quiet" employee who got their work done.

"he seems to lack confidence and sometimes sabotages his good intentions." Sure would like to know what that means, maybe has good ideas but doesn't express them?

I would give the guy a chance, as long as his ways are safe and effecient, and results in good quality product who cares if he has a different approach?

New Guy.

cross hair said:

"his quietness is unnerving"

"he seems to lack confidence and sometimes sabotages his good intentions."

I would give the guy a chance, as long as his ways are safe and effecient, and results in good quality product

Click to expand...

I would like to see what eventually happens with this guy!
I feel that recognising and being able to use the abilites of someone who is "different" ( and possibly very independent with his views) is very important as often this type of person has a lot to offer even though they do not do things the standard way you think it should be done. However it takes a special type of person to be able handle these people and bring out their best qualities.
I have seen this time and again and I hope that someone will be able to fill me in on what happened,.

His personality sounds like mine at work only with confidence, I mind my own business and get the job done, I don't fit into any little "cliques" nor do I want to.

I have found there are "normal" ppl......and there are "freak shows"....the "freak shows" come in 2 different flavors......the 1st flavor is a pain in the ass......the other flavor is border line genius at times. Kinda depends which flavor this "freak show" is......BTW...."normal" ppl arent always the best bet either. Just my overly biased opinion.......I say 90 day period......find out what kinda freak show this guy is......you could end up very happy you tried him out.