Zoning frustration

So we've been in business at our current location for almost 30 years. We have a brand new Caterpillar rental store to our east side. And a storage facility to our West. We have 2 suites at our address. Us and and another equipment dealer. They recently came to us and want to rent the whole building. They've been solid gold tenants and are offering to do an extensive remodel to our building and pay a hefty rent. Almost too good to pass up. Behind our shop is Bobcats yard and behind them I rent out space to some tractor trailers and a concrete company that stores there forms and some trucks. My plan was to let Bobcat have the frontage and build a new building in back. I ran into problems with a septic field due to soil being compacted from having gravel and trucks on top. My existing field, I can't run 2 buildings off of and there's not the room for 2 fields plus 100% future expansion the village would want.

I went to the village to see if I could tap into sewer I thought was close by. The interim director of community development (making 65 bucks an hour...plus another 26 to the search firm the village hired.), The first thing he says when he pulls up the address is, youre not zoned to be doing what you're doing now. Came off as very condescending. Here's a guy that's been here for 3 months telling an established business of 30 years that we can't do business where we're at. I understand him thinking we need to subdivide to build a building in back, but really between the two entities, the amount of people working wouldn't change. Just more iron on the floor. We're a welding job shop. We probably have a village truck in our shop once every other week. You'd think they'd be more understanding/lenient.

So now I'm looking at property. Not really finding anything that fits. Anything industrial is an industrial condo type, and that doesn't work. Any property for sale is now in a TIF district and zoned commercial and I sense a reluctance on their end to zone it light industrial. With grandiose plans of retail shops....on an on ramp next to another storage facility. There's a few other parcels that are interesting, but they want an absolute absurd amount. One has 7 pins and is unwilling to split up...for 1.9 million. Been on the market for years.

So now I don't know what to do. Just recently found out that we're going to be the only company in the county that sells steel/aluminum/stainless to the general public in the county and I'm one county north of Chicago. I sense an opportunity to expand, but I just don't know where I can go. And I don't really want to drag my feet and potentially lose my tenant.

The county here stopped issuing new Lt Industrial a few years ago. Now cant find a space anywhere and people are moving out. The empty buildings are sitting, not the right buildings to modify to other uses and it isnt going to get any better any time soon. It sounds like you are in a real pickle and I feel for you.

When I started and bought out an existing shop I found out his space wasnt zoned for a machine shop. Had to move!! The county knew it was a machine shop before I bought it and didnt say anything about it. And there are two more shops in the same complex but I still had to move.

Charles

Around here an existing business would not be forced to move by a zoning change. It's called "existing non conforming use" and is allowed to continue as long as the business is not closed for more than a year. Was the business an allowed use 30 years ago when it opened? Again around here they would not allow an expansion if your use is non conforming.


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Appears this madness is spread all around the world..........Im in Brisbane,owned 5 acres for 40 years.Basically,the thing developed organically on rural land..........council says ...we will rezone all around here to industrial use......good -o,thinks me......rezoning come thru ...not industrial ,but future industrial..(investigation)...............so I sold one block and building in the prezoning land rush...........zoning comes thru,and first thing is a huge (4x) increase in taxes........then I discover I can do nothing without town planning approval......OK,you might think,but no,the council want an application supported by all kinds of costly engineering and environmental reports and plans.........the engineers have specified 1/2 mile of stormwater drains,and extensive roadworks.A million at least...What a disaster......but the council arent finished ....they hit me over some containers and stuff been there for years.........but I win.....then ,in spite ,they levy all the brush and grass on site a "vegetation protection order",...all because the council have employed legions of young green professionals as planners.....and they hate industry,and hate land owners........EDIT...their vision is of architect designed buildings in acres of parkland and reservation,all the time the owner paying massive taxes on trees and grass.....with enforceable maintenance programs by professionals........how can any small business survive.

I guess I find solace knowing I'm not the only one? There's vacant commercial land around. Pretty much in no man's land. Any commercial standalone building is too low for cranes or has no yard space. The village keeps expanding TIF districts (which I hate, for tax reasons). They think by expanding the TIF they can bring in companies for a promenade type shopping center. Meanwhile they have one shopping center half vacant. Another completely torn down and land vacant. Why not let me expand? Nah, they'd rather give sales and property tax breaks to corporate entities for retail that will never come to that area...so it'll continue to sit vacant. What do retail jobs pay? That's what they try to sell on taxpayers....they bring jobs. So do I. And I don't pay 10 bucks an hour to scan a barcode from something made in China.

People that have never had a real private sector job dictate how our side of things works. Sure they have budgets, but it's money guaranteed to them. They don't have to sweat paying the overhead or making a profit. But they all have this cheeky vision of what the town should look like. It's not like I want a steel mill in a residential area. I want to operate a shear next to a damn storage facility.

There are some higher tech septic options that fit smaller spaces. Might check to see if your building code allows them? These might be 2x the cost, but still a good solution for the land and tenants you already have?

Otherwise, it sounds like you need to elect some better local officials?

There is no way out with "climate catastrophe" being the new religion.....Im old,I just plan to sell for what I can get,and spend my money unwisely.

Pete is right about better septic tank options. I have spoken with and bought parts from these guys, very knowledgable and helpful:
Bluewater ATUs treats all normal human and household waste.
Bluewater solve septic tank problems with sewage treatment inserts
If septic is really your problem this may work for you, if they are using septic as an excuse to get you out then maybe run for office and relax the rules a bit, if you feel they are overreaching it is likely that many of your neighbors do too?

Rob F. said:

Pete is right about better septic tank options. I have spoken with and bought parts from these guys, very knowledgable and helpful:
Bluewater ATUs treats all normal human and household waste.
Bluewater solve septic tank problems with sewage treatment inserts
If septic is really your problem this may work for you, if they are using septic as an excuse to get you out then maybe run for office and relax the rules a bit, if you feel they are overreaching it is likely that many of your neighbors do too?

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I thought septic was my only problem. But from what it sounds like they wouldnt allow me to build a building in the back lot of my property without subdividing. If I subdivide it's highly doubtful this nitwit will grant me the light industrial zoning he wants me to have. And since it's no longer "existing" he's going to want me to put in a deceleration lane. Since I also can't tap into village water, I'm going to have to fight them on the 50,000 gallon tank for sprinklers, because a private well wouldn't work in case of a fire. I don't care for sprinklers but the fire marshal wants them. A new building was put up a few parcels away 2 years ago. The former fire marshal was friends with the guy(actually sold this business to him) and gave them a pass on sprinklers. He has since retired and the new guy wants sprinklers.

New guys tend to stick with the rules (some of which they may not even understand the reasons for; much less the allowed exceptions). As you've already noticed (former fire marshall story), maybe you can find a friend of a friend higher up in his chain of command? Go in with a how-do-we-keep-business-in-town problem solving attitude.

Now you can see why the tenant wants to pay so well! Sounds like its best to tell bobcat to find there own option or to help you find one. At the least sounds like you need to move out of town if your going to relocate at this point.

So I know zoning in mass, but not IL

There should be a zoning map, not a mystery interpretation, what is your land zoned?

I know of no reason you would have to subdivide, multiple buildings on one lot are not that unusual

Existing non conforming would not let you build new buildings, but here we have a ZBA, zoning board of appeals

you may need to consult an attorney who specializes in this, much as we all hate lawyers, it is hard to speculate without knowledge

I thought the business mantra anywhere around Crook county was "everybody has to get paid".

Esracerx46 said:

I guess I find solace knowing I'm not the only one?

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Same madness around here too. "can't" have machine shop in your garage etc etc

The easiest solution would be the closing of your business, then becoming a full-time landlord. Let the village find another shop for their repair needs. Regards, Clark

send a link to this to the next wanker who insists its a free country


Despite how frustrating it is dealing with people who eat from the public trough and have never struggled to meet a payroll.....they are in the drivers seat. Is your municipality big enough to have an economic development person? Do you know the mayor or councilperson? These types usually want to keep and help employers and tax payers, where as the planning office person might have another agenda, like feeding his ego. imo its best to get introduced to the planners by the sorts that do want to help business, like the economic development guy. Then, you've got to find out from the planners what the options are, which may include a committee adjustment sort of thing to alter the bylaw

We'd also called it a legal non conforming use which would go away if the use stopped for a year, although here that would let you put up an addition. A number of you are saying legal non confirming precludes an addition. I'm legal non conforming and just asked about an addition and was told no problem since its all grandfathered as legal non conforming.....obviously different jurisdictions, but is that "for sure" in your case?

End of the day, as much as these types are frustrating to deal with, if the city doesn't want your use there, its an uphill battle. If that's the vibe, where do they want to see the use?

Are you a business owner or a lawyer? If the former, hire the latter ASAP. If the latter, we can't help you.

I would be considered legal non-conforming. From my brief meeting it sounded like I would be allowed to expand the existing building, but the layout I had proposed wouldn't work for the tenant. The guy clearly didn't know what he's talking about. But such is the lay of the land when dealing with local government. Rather than give me options for what I can do, he came off as wanting to me to close shop entirely. Unfortunately my other officials also have the same ideas of grandeur for a town full of retail shops. They list current auto shop businesses in their redevelopment model.

For those interested in what I'm dealing with. Here's an article about my mayor and the local government.

Bankruptcy, foreclosure doesn't stop Knight from seeking Wauconda mayor's post | Lake County Gazette

Stories like this make me think I should run.

Esracerx46 said:

I would be considered legal non-conforming. From my brief meeting it sounded like I would be allowed to expand the existing building, but the layout I had proposed wouldn't work for the tenant. The guy clearly didn't know what he's talking about. But such is the lay of the land when dealing with local government. Rather than give me options for what I can do, he came off as wanting to me to close shop entirely. Unfortunately my other officials also have the same ideas of grandeur for a town full of retail shops. They list current auto shop businesses in their redevelopment model.

For those interested in what I'm dealing with. Here's an article about my mayor and the local government.

Bankruptcy, foreclosure doesn't stop Knight from seeking Wauconda mayor's post | Lake County Gazette

Stories like this make me think I should run.

Click to expand...

You need to learn process and procedure, the guy in the office does not run the town or make the rules, find out the rules. Don't get into arguments.

REad the zoning bylaw if you have to.

I would want to know these things even if I was not trying to add on or even if I was hiring a lawyer

Wasn't getting into an argument. Pretty much just sat there and took it on the chin while my original question sat unanswered.