Trying to value antique machine tools for real estate appraisal.

We are a real estate appraisal firm in San Bernardino, CA. A property we are trying to value houses a number of pieces of antique machine shop equipment that would appear to be of some historical value, as they are unique and in good working order. Any help you can be in determining their value or putting me in contact with anyone else who might know would be greatly appreciated. If we cannot determine their value, we can’t give them any value in our report, which would be a shame. They are described in our report as follows:

Machinery:
The following list of machinery is included for information only. It is to be noted that they are operational per owner. The historical or antiquity value is unknown.

1. Joseph Crawford Lathe: a six foot lathe with a forty inch swing.
This piece of equipment was manufactured in Erie, Pennsylvania between 1855 and 1860. It was originally steam driven with an overhead belt drive but was converted to an electrical driven system sometime after 1915. In general, this lathe was designed to produce shafts, gear blocks, gun barrels, cannons and mortars. This item was purchased by the Rotary Tractor Company and converted to the electrical system following the purchase.

2. Fay Scott- “South Bend” type Lathe: an eight foot lathe.
This lathe was manufactured in Dexter, Maine between 1845 and 1855 and was designed to be steam driven with an overhead belt drive. This piece of equipment also runs on a “Jack Shaft” and driven by steam (see No. 7). In general, this lathe was designed for manufacturing of larger artillery and equipment (e.g. cannons). Purchased used, this system apparently always required steam, thereby necessitating a steam system on site (see No. 4).

3. Baker Brothers Broach:
Manufactured in 1898, this item was designed to be steam driven but was converted later to utilize an electric motor.

4. Air Compressor:
This item was fashioned from a steam locomotive engine reservoir and associated compressor. Manufactured in ca. 1890 this item provided steam for the steam driven equipment prior to any electrical conversion.

5. Geared Band Saw: found associated with the Model “T” Transmission
This band saw wad originally designed to be driven by steam but was later converted to electrical power. Constructed in ca. 1890-1900, this item was designed to saw wood and, later, to cut metal. At the time of the steam to electricity conversion, this item was fitted with a Ford Model “T” transmission and the speed of the saw was controlled by shifting gears. This item was
originally manufactured by the Ducomman Metal and Supply Company in 1850. The conversion to metal cutting occurred around 1900 and the final conversion to electrical power was completed between 1915 and 1920. The Rotary Tractor Company purchased this item used and after its conversion to metal cutting, but oversaw the conversion to electricity after its purchase.

6. Kemp Smith Company Milling Machine (with bridge part attachment):
This item was manufactured in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in ca. 1900 and sild to the Los Angeles Machine Company. It was sold to the Rotary Tractor Company as a steam driven piece for milling purposes. This item was driven by the steam system developed at the Rotary Tractor Company facility (see No.4).

7. Overhead Jack Shaft System:
The “Jack Shaft” system was designed to drive all belt driven equipment via a simple system of overhead belts, shafts and pulleys. This system was originally designed to be steam driven, but once established at The Rotary Tractor Company, was converted to electricity. The “Jack Shaft” system has a built-in flexibility that permitted minute changes in the cutting and speed or the various pieces of equipment and required precise engineering in installation and maintenance. The system currently maintained within the facility on “I” Street still requires calibration and precise engineering calculations for accurate use.

8. Iron Funnel:
This iron funnel predates 1900 and was designed to be used in conjunction with a forge and/or blacksmithing operation. Manufactured between 1850 and 1860, this item was purchased used and adapted for use at The Rotary Tractor Company facility.

9. Magneto Tester:
A “magneto” is an instrument used to produce the spark necessary for igniting gasoline in a gasoline engine. The “magneto” tester is a relatively small tool used to test the spark production of the magneto. This item was developed between 1905 and 1920 and purchased commercially for use at the Rotary Tractor Company. This item is quite rare and considered a collectible or museum piece.

Thank you for your time and any help you can offer.

Kathi Sellfors
C.M. Benefiel Appraisal Service

We are a real estate appraisal firm in San Bernardino, CA. A property we are trying to value houses a number of pieces of antique machine shop equipment that would appear to be of some historical value, as they are unique and in good working order. Any help you can be in determining their value or putting me in contact with anyone else who might know would be greatly appreciated. If we cannot determine their value, we can’t give them any value in our report, which would be a shame. They are described in our report as follows:

Machinery:
The following list of machinery is included for information only. It is to be noted that they are operational per owner. The historical or antiquity value is unknown.

1. Joseph Crawford Lathe: a six foot lathe with a forty inch swing.
This piece of equipment was manufactured in Erie, Pennsylvania between 1855 and 1860. It was originally steam driven with an overhead belt drive but was converted to an electrical driven system sometime after 1915. In general, this lathe was designed to produce shafts, gear blocks, gun barrels, cannons and mortars. This item was purchased by the Rotary Tractor Company and converted to the electrical system following the purchase.

2. Fay Scott- “South Bend” type Lathe: an eight foot lathe.
This lathe was manufactured in Dexter, Maine between 1845 and 1855 and was designed to be steam driven with an overhead belt drive. This piece of equipment also runs on a “Jack Shaft” and driven by steam (see No. 7). In general, this lathe was designed for manufacturing of larger artillery and equipment (e.g. cannons). Purchased used, this system apparently always required steam, thereby necessitating a steam system on site (see No. 4).

3. Baker Brothers Broach:
Manufactured in 1898, this item was designed to be steam driven but was converted later to utilize an electric motor.

4. Air Compressor:
This item was fashioned from a steam locomotive engine reservoir and associated compressor. Manufactured in ca. 1890 this item provided steam for the steam driven equipment prior to any electrical conversion.

5. Geared Band Saw: found associated with the Model “T” Transmission
This band saw wad originally designed to be driven by steam but was later converted to electrical power. Constructed in ca. 1890-1900, this item was designed to saw wood and, later, to cut metal. At the time of the steam to electricity conversion, this item was fitted with a Ford Model “T” transmission and the speed of the saw was controlled by shifting gears. This item was
originally manufactured by the Ducomman Metal and Supply Company in 1850. The conversion to metal cutting occurred around 1900 and the final conversion to electrical power was completed between 1915 and 1920. The Rotary Tractor Company purchased this item used and after its conversion to metal cutting, but oversaw the conversion to electricity after its purchase.

6. Kemp Smith Company Milling Machine (with bridge part attachment):
This item was manufactured in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in ca. 1900 and sild to the Los Angeles Machine Company. It was sold to the Rotary Tractor Company as a steam driven piece for milling purposes. This item was driven by the steam system developed at the Rotary Tractor Company facility (see No.4).

7. Overhead Jack Shaft System:
The “Jack Shaft” system was designed to drive all belt driven equipment via a simple system of overhead belts, shafts and pulleys. This system was originally designed to be steam driven, but once established at The Rotary Tractor Company, was converted to electricity. The “Jack Shaft” system has a built-in flexibility that permitted minute changes in the cutting and speed or the various pieces of equipment and required precise engineering in installation and maintenance. The system currently maintained within the facility on “I” Street still requires calibration and precise engineering calculations for accurate use.

8. Iron Funnel:
This iron funnel predates 1900 and was designed to be used in conjunction with a forge and/or blacksmithing operation. Manufactured between 1850 and 1860, this item was purchased used and adapted for use at The Rotary Tractor Company facility.

9. Magneto Tester:
A “magneto” is an instrument used to produce the spark necessary for igniting gasoline in a gasoline engine. The “magneto” tester is a relatively small tool used to test the spark production of the magneto. This item was developed between 1905 and 1920 and purchased commercially for use at the Rotary Tractor Company. This item is quite rare and considered a collectible or museum piece.

Thank you for your time and any help you can offer.

Kathi Sellfors
C.M. Benefiel Appraisal Service

Probaly no regular market value, I wouldn't think anyone could justify operating this stuff on a regular basis, is there a collector market for this old big stuff? Have you contacted the Precision Machine Museum in Vermont?

Probaly no regular market value, I wouldn't think anyone could justify operating this stuff on a regular basis, is there a collector market for this old big stuff? Have you contacted the Precision Machine Museum in Vermont?

If you are trying to determine value for estate tax purposes, the value is zero. They are actually a liability. It will cost money to have them moved and scrapped.
In reality, you might be able to give them away to whomever wants to move them. No real tangible value. Sad but true.
Les

If you are trying to determine value for estate tax purposes, the value is zero. They are actually a liability. It will cost money to have them moved and scrapped.
In reality, you might be able to give them away to whomever wants to move them. No real tangible value. Sad but true.
Les

One idea, since this seems to be part of the equipment of the "rotary tractor co", is to try through some of the tractor-related magazines.
There may be other things there such as old boxes of records etc which can be quite valuable to historians and collectors. As to pricing, I don't know, but its a better deal than paying for haulage.

Gas Engine Magazine is one.

Another place is the website www.enginads.com There are several discussion groups like this accessible from the site, some of which might be helpful.

And, the bulletin board at www.chaski.com, (go to the machining bulletin board), has a number of regulars who are into old and outsized equipment.

One idea, since this seems to be part of the equipment of the "rotary tractor co", is to try through some of the tractor-related magazines.
There may be other things there such as old boxes of records etc which can be quite valuable to historians and collectors. As to pricing, I don't know, but its a better deal than paying for haulage.

Gas Engine Magazine is one.

Another place is the website www.enginads.com There are several discussion groups like this accessible from the site, some of which might be helpful.

And, the bulletin board at www.chaski.com, (go to the machining bulletin board), has a number of regulars who are into old and outsized equipment.

The bottom line is that pretty much no one "collects" things that require a forklift or crane to move. I don't happen to like that situation, and think it's ridiculous that an old handplane might be worth more than my "only one on Earth" 1870's Jones Superior 36 inch jigsaw, but that's that reality I'm afraid. Similar situations exist with more convential antiques. A rare violin or guitar will fetch tens of thousands of dollars, while an even rarer and fancier piano will go to the scrap heap.

The bottom line is that pretty much no one "collects" things that require a forklift or crane to move. I don't happen to like that situation, and think it's ridiculous that an old handplane might be worth more than my "only one on Earth" 1870's Jones Superior 36 inch jigsaw, but that's that reality I'm afraid. Similar situations exist with more convential antiques. A rare violin or guitar will fetch tens of thousands of dollars, while an even rarer and fancier piano will go to the scrap heap.

A good indication would be to look on EBAY.
To get a good idea of what some things are bringing. However, most of the stuff you mention really can vary in price from a hundred bucks to a thousand bucks. Depends on who wants it at the time and how close they are.

A good indication would be to look on EBAY.
To get a good idea of what some things are bringing. However, most of the stuff you mention really can vary in price from a hundred bucks to a thousand bucks. Depends on who wants it at the time and how close they are.

True except I'd change your price range from zero to 100 bucks

True except I'd change your price range from zero to 100 bucks

Kathie,

If you get good advice it should be to low-ball everything. Salvage value of zero should be your target. Cost of salvage will equal or exceed any tangable value. If you fabricate a value it will cost you money in taxes.

Kathie,

If you get good advice it should be to low-ball everything. Salvage value of zero should be your target. Cost of salvage will equal or exceed any tangable value. If you fabricate a value it will cost you money in taxes.

If there is a cost basis it may be worth while to donate the stuff to a non profit. Be careful of this because I think they actually have to accept it to be deductable. Otherwise I would be donating my household trash every week to the Opera and deducting it on a cost per pound of groceries purchased, Hey why not?

If there is a cost basis it may be worth while to donate the stuff to a non profit. Be careful of this because I think they actually have to accept it to be deductable. Otherwise I would be donating my household trash every week to the Opera and deducting it on a cost per pound of groceries purchased, Hey why not?