OT, (Home defense)

Hello All,

Here in Harm City (The City that Bleeds) which some of you may note as sarcastic takeoffs of former slogans of the lovely city of Baltimore( in Maryland), I have recently been appraised of a situation by my neighbor, where some drug addict was in my next-door neighbors yard at 2:30 in the morning.

My neighbor noticed because his motion activated spotlight went off, and he went out and chased the sumbitch down a few house down (including past mine) until he got away.

This has got me talking with my fiancee. First off, I grew up in the country of MD. My goddamn grandfather came into the hospital when I was born with my first shotgun that used to be my uncle's for christsakes! I grew up around guns and always practice safe procedures.

My future wife is a city girl but because of such she also doesn't like the , for lack of a more politically correct word, undesirable poor people of the area (if you are from around the region you can guess who).

Because of this recent action on the part of the undesirables, I am going to get a standard 12 ga Mossberg pump, probably loaded with Glaser safety loads because of closeness to neighbors in rowhouses.

I used to have a 6" sweet nickel plated Colt King Cobra in .357 mag with Hogue combat grips that I sold awhile ago, that now I wish I kept. Although for home defense I at the time only kept .38 specials in.

The mag was too hot a load for me to trust myself with, and I know this now. The .38 special was right on for me, handling and recoil wise. In the future, I plan to get another .38 spec. revolver (probably Ruger) just to have.

My main question or poll I guess is, what do you guys keep at home for self defense?

I know the sound of a 12 gauge being racked should be enough for most a hole to s their pants, and I am definetely going to get one in the next few weeks, but I want some input on what you guys keep in your houses, and what your living situation is (i.e., in the country, or next to neighbors, like I am in the rowhouses of Baltimore city.)

Thanks fellas, and go Redskins!

Dan

doing somereading on that topic was interesting always liked the ithaca model 37 sound (old style.) rack the action and hold the triggerback- pump fast as you like, just make sure you are holding on.

for quiet work, I see a highpower airgun is often mentioned, no knockdown but the beestings are terribly irritating when they keep coming and you dont know from where. smart enough gets the message to go away, not smart enough gets lots of very very very nasty sting scars. these arent your kids BB guns, they are seriosly effective.

shouldnt ever have to happen- the need to point a weapon at somebody just to have peace. you need to move to somewhere out of that jungle and leave the jungle to hte mindless beasts -let them eat each other.

I agree with you lw, but until i get out I want to have something to be able to take care of the undesirable persons not irritate them with my Sheridan .20 pellet gun. If those MF's come on my property again I want the ability to make them not breathe anymore, not make them more pissed at me. If I want to be non lethal, I could load some rocksalt in the shells, but that wouldn't be as fun for me.

Mess with me and I will throw at cat on you!
http://www.clubchopper.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=17949&cat=500&ppuser=1763

Our problem out here is Grizzlys and Wolves. Favor the Marlin 45-70 with Garrett hammerheads in the tube. We are of course speaking of undesirables in the yard. 8000' elevation in WY.

I agree 100% with the shotgun. I have a short barreled Mossberg pump loaded with 00Buck (in the magazine only) next to my bed. NOTHING will get the attention better than the sound of it cycling. But, in the heat of the moment, should it ever arise, aiming a handgun and getting the job done takes training. Even cops don't have enough training to handle some situations. You don't have to be particular with the scattergun, it does the job for you. If you're going to use it, do it all the way, not half way. A dead man can't easily sue you.

My choice is a pump shotgun (can't beat that sound for intimidation) with birdshot in the first slot, and 00 behind it. Rws is right about dead men being less likely to sue. But having never shot a living thing, I'm not entirely sure I could pull the trigger the first time, knowing it was almost certain to kill. If the birdshot doesn't stop him, it'll at least make the decision to kill him easier.

Either way, trying to aim a pistol in that situation seems optimistic, at best.

The first thing you need to do is research your states use of force/justification laws. Some of the statements you made in your posts could be enough to show intent and send you to prison even if you were otherwise justified. I many states shooting [at] a person with a firarm is deadly force no matter what the load in the chamber or intent of the operator. Less than lethal loads are usually reserved for law enforcement with strict requirements on their use to keep them less than lethal. Homemade loads like rock salt usually are seen as intent to mame, automatic lawsuit that you will lose. Always shoot to stop but stop them permanently then theres only on liar in court. By the way I prefer a 1911 pattern pistol but then I have at present count 80,000+ practice rounds through mine.

Thanks all for the replies. I liked the idea of load ing birdshot for the first round. Gives a chance for a criminal to stop, but you also have the immediate option of using a slug or double ought if that should prove insufficient.

Does anyone have experience with non-lethal rounds such as rubber pellets or bean beag rounds? Are these even sold to civillians?

I believe the shotgun would be the best weapon with your neighbors, and they are safer to have around. Be sure to buy the shortest one you can find that is legal. The only drawback to using a shotgun is that they are slower to swing and a little tougher to bring into action especially indoors.
Be very sure to run as many scenarios through your mind before it happens and be damn sure you know for sure what is going on before pulling the trigger. Don't want to kill the neighbor just because he got drunk and thinks he is sneaking into his own home.
If you ever do have to shoot somebody do not talk to the police but call your attorney before answering any questions from them.
Michael

I totally agree with the shotgun theory even though I haven't got one at this time.To me,at least,there's nothing more horrifying than hearing a pump shotgun racking back in total darkness.

down here in fl. if you kill someone breaking into your house make sure you drag them completely inside, otherwise they were escaping ,RE: leaving the scene , and justifiable homicide doesent apply. you will be charged with manslaughter.
now if you shoot a cop and his dog when they catch up with you you will be shot a minimum of 168 times or until they run out of bullets. this happened last week...jim

I keep an old 12 ga Remington Model 11 with the plug pulled and five #4 buck. I don't have a pump because I don't want the bad guys to know where I am in the dark and simply pushing a safety makes me more comfortable.

BTW, I shot a hog around 3-4 yds away with a low brass 7-1/2 birdshot round and it blew a hole thru his head. At close range, that mass of shot and wad coming out of the barrel doesn't care whether it's buckshot or birdshot. The good thing about birdshot is it won't penetrate too many walls if you miss. The bad thing is you can't shoot through a wall if you need to.

Hopefully, you'll never have to find out. It's a very traumatic thing to end someone's life - even if he is a crackhead.

Here in WI you also better make sure they are completly in the house before you shoot and tell the cops that you were in fear of your life otherwise you probably won't have cause to use deadly force.

Doesn't FL have that Castle law? Where you can protect like anything that belongs to you ie: car, boat, shed, home.


I am trying to get a Ar-15 (thinking 6.5 Grendel with 16" barrel) built that I think will be good for home defense, kinda of on the same lines of the shotgun being racked nothing like the sound of the bolt of an AR snapping forward to make someone think twice.

JP

JP:
yes we do have the Castle Law Doctrine it does 4 things.
1. the presumption that if someone enters your domicile they are there to cause death.
2. removes the duty of retreat, you dont have to back off or run.
3. if you use force you will not be prosecuted.
4. prohibits the criminal or their families from bringing suit.

every state should have a version of this law...jim

I laugh every time I think about this event.I moved to my first home I bought when I was 24.The insuance guy that i purchased coverage off of lived 1 mile away.He warned me that things come up missing every now and then.He kind of pointed in the general direction up the road where some backward types lived.He advised keeping things locked up.
Fast forward about 3 months.I am sleeping and was awakened by a banging noise at 1:00 am.It was summertime and windows were open and a bright moon.The noise sounded like it was coming from the barn.I had my shotgun under the bed and retreived it.I kept listening and heard a louder bang that sounded like someone beating the lock off the barn door.I shot 3 rounds thru the screen into the air and you should of heard the yelling and whooping.That was the last time I ever had any problems there.

About a month ago, a homeowner in San Antonio, Texas fired several shots thru his front door in the middle of the night when he heard banging noises. He killed one guy and wounded 1 or 2 others. News reports at the time of the incident said he was not charged. I think it's interesting that he did not have to wait until they were in the house.

Don't know if anyone watched Dateline last night but there was a story on a fellow who went hiking in an Arizona national forest area and was confronted by a man who was homeless and living in the forest with a couple of dogs. I won't rehash the whole thing but the hiker shot and killed the other man after a confrontation. He was found guilty of 2nd degree murder and sentenced to 10 years in prison. According to most everyone involved, the shooter was a paragon of virtue, family man, retired teacher, etc. and the other guy had a history of being bad tempered and irrational. The shooter also had a valid license to carry but was still sent to prison.

What I heard in this story was that the DA convinced the jury that a 1911 style, .40 cal handgun was VERY powerful and with hollowpoints, only designed to kill people, even though the accused said he carried it against wild animals. Having been in voir dire on jury panels, I know that attorneys don't typically want jurors who know anything about firearms but the bottom line is that this guy apparently committed what could be called a "good shooting" but was still punished severely. Food for thought...

down here in fl. if you kill someone breaking into your house make sure you drag them completely inside, otherwise they were escaping ,RE: leaving the scene , and justifiable homicide doesent apply. you will be charged with manslaughter.

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Jim, I think you give some very good advise on this board but I will have to disagree with you here and think this would be a big mistake. It was probably good advise 50 years ago but now they should be able to reconstruct the crime scene and will know just exactly what happened. The prosecuting atty will prove to the jury that you knew you did the wrong thing by modifying the crime scene and then lied about it. I think it would be better to say you feared one of your children was in the front yard and you were trying to protect the child.
This is what I mean about not talking to the police until your atty is present. It could be the difference between you going to prison or not!
Michael

pa. has what the gun haters call the shoot your neigbor law which means you can use force to keep them from driving off in your car or breaking into your garage and taking your tools.

but it all boils down to the d.a. if he is a anti gun and wants to move up make a name for him self. then you are in trouble.


let me say this if you can not get your mind around shooting some one. don't bother getting a gun. if you do have a gun don't try the shoot to scare them or just shoot them a little bit. if you have to shoot centermass first time. 2 reasons for that first a warning shot could get you killed and second it could give an eager lawyer a reason to put you in jail.

I have no ethical problem with shooting someone to protect myself, or someone else. Sitting here, calmly, rationally thinking about it, I'm certain I'll pull the trigger, if ever I have to. The problem comes with the definition of "have to." There's a broad range between what SOME people would call a good kill, and what MOST people would call a good kill. (some would say it's never justified) It's the situations in that range that I worry about. That's why I'd go with the pump. In most cases, I'd expect the sound of a 12 gauge racking to be enough that I don't have to make that call.