LeBlond/South Bend

I just got off the phone with the Leblond folks in Cinnci and the guy there was rather "unhelpful". I know that the Southbend is the "short line" now, but geeze it isn't like I was asking for a favor.

All I wanted was to inquire about the spindle adapter for a 5c collet for my Nordic. He informed me that such parts were never availible for that lathe and therefore not able to be purchased now.

He said that Royal was their supplier for such parts. When asked if Royal was able to provide replacement parts for older units he said "no."

Sounds like they don't want my business.

Maybe not their fault....

Royal may be the ultimate culprit, as they supposedly have discontinued the production of the drawtube collet closer systems.

The last order date for one was some time in February, according to one dealer for their products.

Sounds like you make your own......

We just got rid of a Nordic 25 engine lathe here at the power plant. The reason we got rid of it was that an electromagnetic clutch in the headstock failed. Even when Southbend was reasonably healthy, they did not support us when we'd call them for parts for this Nordic lathe. We knew this clutch was giving out, and Southbend, even a few years back was no help. They explained that they had taken on the "Nordic" line in the 1960's-1970's and then ditched it. What we found out was the Nordic lathes were made by a French firm caled "Muller & Pessant". Muller & Pessant ditched the Nordic line, selling the rights to some Belgian firm, who did even less with it. We once tried to contact the Belgian firm directly for parts and got nowheres. The clutch was made by Warner of France, and it proved impossible to get another clutch from them- if it was not obsoleted. LeBlond, Ltd found what they thought was the right clutch in stock in the USA. Fortunately, they sent us dimensions of the clutch they found and a cross section of the headstock of the Nordic lathe it was for. Surprise- Nordic had a few versions of headstock internals for the same size/line of lathe. In short, a Nordic lathe is a mongrel that no one seems to support. When the clutch failed in the Nordic 25 lathe here at the power plant, LeBlond Ltd DID try pretty hard to help us find a replacement. They had very little information to go on because Southbend had never really supported the Nordic lathes for some years previous. LeBlond, Ltd called around the US to various rebuilders but could not come up with the right replacement clutch. We got prices to convert the Nordic 25 to get rid of the electromagnetic clutches and put in an AC inverter drive. All the electrics, including the motor mounting would have had to have been replaced. It was not worth it. We took that Nordic out of the plant and it is in the boneyard rusting. Ways were like brand new, cross slide & compound rescraped a few years earlier. We figured it was a light duty lathe, parts were impossible to come by, so out it went. It will likely go for junk.

We are putting in a 24" x 96" heavy duty LeBlond engine lathe. No one would even take the Nordic in trade. Baby the one you've got, because if something lets go, you could be all done.

Joe Michaels

Joe,
What would be the chances of me getting the one setting out side?

I know this thing has an electric brake but I am not familiar with the clutch you speak of. I guess there is no way to lock the clutch up and run it direct.

Ft Wayne Clutch claims they can rebuild any clutch. After seeing the beautiful job they did on a buddy's 1917 International truck clutch I want to believe them. They also resurfaced the flywheel and replaced the springs on the plate. I think that flywheel weighed over 200lbs.
Paul

The clutch packs were actually fine in the SB Nordic lathe. It was the electrical coils that went south. The coils and clutches are right inside the headstock, exposed to oil. The oil broke down the insulation in the clutches over time. The other problem with that Nordic 25 lathe was the design of the controls. The "clutch/brake" lever on the apron had no solid gate or detent between positions. A person operating the lathe would push the lever hard down to get the spindle rotating in the "forward" (normal) direction. On stopping the spindle, he'd pull up on the lever. At mid position, this would drop out the contaqcts to the coil on the "forward clutch" and close in the contact to put current into the clutch pack used as a brake. problem was there was never a good solid detent or gate to get in and out of that mid/brake position. A person stopping the spindle would occasionally pull up through the middle position and put the current to the reverse clutch. There'd be a scream of the belts and some awful noise in the headstock and that lathe would started running in reverse. This eventually destroyed the anti-rotation dogs and forks on the clutch and brake housings.

My initial plan was to get rid of all three of those French built clutches and go to a striaght input driveshaft. This would then be driven by an AC inverter drive with "start/stop" being the only control function on the apron lever. "Forward/Reverse" would be controlled by pushbuttons on a new electrical panel at the headstock. The problem was the gearing in the headstock was strange. It was not a case of an equal number of froward and reverse speeds. The reverse clutch worked one gear train and the forward clutch worked another.

The lathe had been partially gone thru by a rebuilder about 8 years earlier and the cross slide & compound had been rescraped. It really didn't get much use in a powerplant machine shop. The tailstock handwheel had some really tiny planetary gear driv ein it which had also let go. We had cobbed it together. Otherwise, the lathe was accurate and in good overall condition.
For a 25" swing lathe, it was an absurdly light duty machine. I had gotten a price to rework the headstock to get rid of the clutch/brake units and go to AC Inverter drive. This meant reworking all the electrics on the lathe and they were non-standard French electrics. With a decided lack of parts and support on the rest of the lathe and a pricetag approaching 15 grand for the conversion job, it took no convincing to get rid of that lathe.

It is sitting outside rusting. We are a state owned Power Authority so there is quite some formality to disposing of stuff by selling it as surplus. Chances are it will sit in the boneyard until enough scrap pipe, leaking heat exchangers, old valves and a few miles of assorted old control wiring and cable accumulate. There will be some advertisement to bidders and the whole load will go as scrap, bidder take all.

I can tell you there were NO tears shed over seeing that lathe go out to the boneyard. It has a light rust ont he ways and machined surfaces, so probably is salvageable now- if someone wanted to tinker with it and rework the headstock. The trick would be getting thru the bureaucracy. I asked a couple of firms if they would take the Nordic 25 in trade, "as-is". They wouldn;t touch it.

As for us, we are on the edge of doing a 3 week heavy repair outage here, so have put off the arrival of the 24" x 96" heavy duty LeBlond which is replacing the Nordic 25. The spindle taper is the same, and we have some nice new chucks, faceplates, and Aloris toolpost and toolholders fof the Nordic to go onto the LeBlond. The Leblond that is coming in is an NK 2516, with about 3 times as much as iron as that Nordic and 4 times the spindle horsepower. It's a US Built lathe and a REAL engine lathe in our books.
Joe Michaels

Joe, those wet clutches can be rewound by a good electric motor shop. Repaired an Italian made Graziano lathe with the same problem. Cost about 100 bucks or so.
Good luck with your new LeBlonde, they are sweet. Bill

Joe,
Thanks for the reply. I know the clutches ride in the head stock oil and I have wondered about oil attacking the windings before this conversation. I need to change the oil but I am afraid I will choose the wrong type and invite disaster.

Guess I will pass on the 25. There is a guy near me that has a Lodge&Shippley of about 30 swing he wants $700 for. All I have to do is find a place to put it.

I have worked in the electric utility industry for over 20 years; mineral oil is what we use in transformers these days. I don't know about the mechanical properties but it is an insulator. In the substations were the oil is used in large transformers and breakers that are operated frequently, the oil gets changed periodically because after so many operations the oil is contaminated due contacts opening and closing and mechanical wear when the oil gets dirty it looses the insulating property and a flash over and catastrophic failure will occur.