Am I in trouble ?? (lube question)........

I have a "new-to-me" 1947 vintage 13" SBL. I haven't had a chance to really go over it, but the spindle sounds OK when I run it. My question is, the previous owner lubricated all the cups with 10W-30 motor oil. Of course when I pointed out to him that the lube plate says "Don't us automotive oil", he says "That's only because the lathe companies want you to buy oil from them." - Errrrggggghhhhh !!!!
He used the lathe only intermittantly (couple of hours a month or so ??) while he's had it, which is probably 12 years or so.

Has running it with motor oil possibly contributed to shortening the life of the spindle bearings? If I change to a good grade spindle oil (i.e. Mobil Velocite or equivilent) from now on be OK or do I need to flush & fill and, if so, how would you go about flushing it ?

Thanks a million for any help you can provide,
-Bob

I wouldn't sweat it. At least he was oiling it. I'm no expert, but with bearings that large and spindle speeds that low I doubt the use of motor oil would shorten the bearing life at all.

I cannot say what shape your spindle
bearings are in, but I do know that
I've been feeding mine a steady diet
of synthetic Mobil One engine oil for
about 15 years now. They still run fine.
This is a 10L BTW.

Jim

Hi There,

The question about the use of "motor oil" in machines has always been a contentious one. There are people that swear by motor oils and there are others that swear at motor oils. My philosophy is "motor oils are for motors and machine oils are for machines." Motor oils are formulated not to cling to parts as much in order to cut down on combustion of the oil that gets on the cylinder walls. Also, motor oils are formulated to keep particles in suspension so that they can be filtered out more readily. And motor oils are designed to provide their lubricating qualities at the operating temperatures of an internal combustion engine.

Now, using motor oil is better than NO oil. And considering the "testimonials" one sees proffering motor oil use in a lathe, I seriously doubt that it is very harmful. I just feel more comfortable knowing that the oil I am using meets the specifications of the manufacturer. Plus, a gallon of Mobil Velocite No. 10 is no more expensive than four quarts of Mobil 1.

Just my two cents. Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

detergent motor oils are formulated to carry dirt in suspension so the filter can remove it. Most non-detergent oils such as spindle oils will allow the dirt to settle out, and the reservoirs and felt wick systems are designed to accomodate this.

Ideally, it is not good to add a detergent oil to such a system as it will begin to loosen and pick up the dirt that has previously settled out of harms way.

The other factor is viscosity/temp. I'm not willing to drag down a handbook (available from any oil jobber) and cross reference; but my guess is that light spindle oil, ISO22, is probably a lot thinner than 10-30 multigrade motor oil. This will affect how tight the plain bearings in the lathe can be run. If you do the wooden pry-bar test and tighten the bearings down to book minimum, they will probably overheat with 10-30 motor oil. This means the potential for metal smearing and possibly partial seizure. If the bearings are run at the book loose tolerance or looser, and they stay cool, then viscosity is probably not a factor.

I hate disturbing a good set of free turning plain bearings. It takes so little to upset them in terms of slight distortion, accidental nearly unseen dirt against a seat when they are reseated, any of the almost unaccountable ways they can be slightly mis-aligned from the way they settled. If you can drain the oil without taking the bearings out, I would. But otherwise, I would be tempted to keep over filling it with the correct spindle oil and keeping an eye on the temperature. If the bearings need taken up, maybe take them up to the middle of the range or toward the loose side at first and give them some more time before going for the minimum.

If the felts are all new, that should indicate the spindle was completely cleaned while it was apart. So there should not be any dirt in the system at this point

If the bearings are "really" loose, say over a couple thousandths with the prybar test, it might be worth taking them apart to clean, as it will take a fair amount of distortion and probably running in to get them right anyway. In that case, taking them out will not really disturb the bedding any worse than the take up procedure is apt to.

If the bearings are at all rough, take them apart, clean everything meticulously, and reassemble according to the book.

smt

Thanks for everyone's input, it's appreciated.

I will check for any play in the bearings. I mopped up all the oil in the cups and will use the correct spindle oil from here on in.

Thanks again,
-Bob

The preferred motor oil for SB lathe plain
beaings is synthetic Mobil One engine oil,
0w30 wt IMO.

The first number is a zero.

The reason I do run that in my SB lathes with
plain bearing spindles, is that it allows
operation at the highest spindle speeds with
the bearings adjusted per the SB spec.

Using the SB recommended oil, the bearings in
those machines tend to overheat and bind up
when run for more than a few minutes at top
speed. I have had this happen on three
different SB lathes I've owned, each one
was 'fixed' by simply flushing the headstock
and re-filling with synthetic M1.

YMMV as they say.

Jim

Jim,
Thanks for your reply.

The synthetic Mobil oil sounds interesting, especially since I'm having problems locating the SBL recommended oils in small quantities, locally. I'm not very familiar with the synthetic oils, however - is the "0W30" designation a fairly common one, something that can be picked up at a local auto parts house? Do you also use the 0W30 for way oil or do you use something different?

What's the preferred way to flush the headstock - just run oil through it until it replaces the "old" oil?

Also, if I understand correctly, there are felt wicks in the lines from the oil cups. What's the best way to remove & replace the wicks, or shouldn't I bother? Are the wicks availabke commercially or will they have to be made out of felt or ???

Sorry for all the questions, but I really want to do the correct maintenance on this old girl and give her the care & respect her old age deserves.
-Bob

I've been using Mobil 1 5W-30 which is easy to find. Not as thick as the 10W, and it flows thru the headstock of my 10L quite well. The apron gearing seems to pick it up and get it up into the cross-feed screw bearing.

On the ways, use a way oil, it makes a considerable difference; Mobil Vactra #2 or similar. You can get it mailorder by Enco or any of the other usual suspects. But don't use it on any shaft bearings, the stuff that makes it a good way lube can crud up oil passages and leave deposits, etc..

Jim's 10L has a newer headstock than mine, his has drain plugs which allow the oil to be let out easily. I have to free the headstock, rest it on some plywood and carefully pitch it over so it drains.

At some point you should consider having a look inside the apron; pull the carriage, remove the access cover from the back of the apron and clean out whatever goo is in there. It tends to collect chips and turn into grease. A big bucket of diesel fuel you can dunk the apron in for a nice scrub is a pretty good way to help clean things out. There are no critical adjustments or linkages to be worried about when pulling off the apron, the screws on the top of the carriage wings hold it on. Just be ready for the weight and for any oil that may slosh out while you manhandle it.

Gregm

The 0w30 M1 is the silver-cap oil IIRC. It
is commonly available at mobil gas stations
and auto supply houses in those handy one
quart bottles. Any extra left over can be
disposed of by pouring directly into your
car engine.

My 10L lathes always did have two extra
pipe plugs on each side of the headstock,
one pair above, and one pair below the oil
cups. Photo:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/SB-OIL1.jpg

I just remove the lower plug, and stick my
finger over the hole while I thread in a
fitting with a piece of tubing to allow
me to drain into a can. Those are 1/8 NPT
threads btw.

Jim

Chip,

I have a 42 model 13". It has plain cast iron spindle bearings, no bronze inserts.. when I got mine, it had been sitting for quite a while. I wanted to get all the old crudded up oil out of the machine, so I pulled the spindle and oil cups and blew the thing out with carb cleaner, got ALOT of nasty out. Let the headstock sit open for a week or so to let any remainng carb cleaner evaporate.
Also discovered the felts were worn slap out, which would explain the minor ring of galling on the spindle & bearings. Went ahead and splurged and bought new felts from LeBlond. I use the SBL recommended oil FWIW.
I HIGHLY recommend getting the parts book, either a reprint, or straight from LeBlond. It has a great deal of maintenance/repair info in it as well as exploded views of just about everything.

Rosie at Partsworks, should be able to find the reference by doing a keyword search of the SB forum, also has the parts manual- I think she may carry parts too.

Gregm

Thanks to everyone that replied.......MOST helpful !!
-Bob