10 EE head stock lube

rich p · May 13, 2008

Sorry if this has been asked before, but what is commonly used for lubricating oil on a 10EE's head stock? Long before I started, they were putting vactra no. 2 in there, which I thought was a way oil. I did look on Mobil's website and it did say Vactra can be used as a head stock oil.

gary tisdel · May 13, 2008

hi rich,

i have the manual to that page right now, the headstock and spindle bearings say to use mobil vactra light.

gary

The real Leigh · May 13, 2008

Yep, Vactra #2, which says "Way Oil, Medium" on the front.

The Mobil website shows Vactra #1 (presumably "Light"), #2, #3, and #4, but I've never found #1 or #3 available for sale anywhere.

My 10ee is quite happy with #2.

- Leigh

daryl bane · May 13, 2008

I think you should be using DTE light for the headstock, DTE medium heavy for the gearbox and backgear. Vactra #2 for the apron or (better yet)Vacuoline 1409. I certainly wouldn't run Vactra #2 in the headstock. :skep:

Vactra #1 may now be labeled or equivilent to DTE light.

rke[pler · May 13, 2008

Vactra has (has?) 2 series - numbered and named. They were not exactly the same. When I called Mobil about Vactra Light (named series) they suggested that DTE Light was better for the application, so that's what I use.

I plan on replacing my Vactra #2 Way Oil with Vacuoline 1409 when I can, just to see the difference on the ways.

Cal Haines · May 16, 2008

rich p said:
Sorry if this has been asked before, but what is commonly used for lubricating oil on a 10EE's head stock? Long before I started, they were putting vactra no. 2 in there, which I thought was a way oil. I did look on Mobil's website and it did say Vactra can be used as a head stock oil.

Rich,

If you have an older headstock (round or square dial) with three oil sight glasses, use Mobile DTE Light in the spindle bearings, and DTE Heavy Medium in the headstock gearing. If you have a newer headstock, with a single sight glass, use DTE Light. I think it would probably be OK to use DTE light for everyting in the old-style headstock, but you might want to call Monarch and verify this.

Cal

rke[pler · May 16, 2008

Cal Haines said:
Rich,

If you have an older headstock (round or square dial) with three oil sight glasses, use Mobile DTE Light in the spindle bearings, and DTE Heavy Medium in the headstock gearing. If you have a newer headstock, with a single sight glass, use DTE Light. I think it would probably be OK to use DTE light for everyting in the old-style headstock, but you might want to call Monarch and verify this.

Cal

I'm not sure why you would suggest that when the manual from Monarch is quite clear about using Mobil Vactra Light (for which Mobil DTE Light is an appropriate replacement) in all 3 headstock reservoirs.

macona · May 16, 2008

My manual says medium heavy in the central box and light in the bearings.

But my machine likes to transfer oil from the central box to the front bearing so it always overflows.

The real Leigh · May 16, 2008

Vactra #2 passes the Rust Protection Test per ASTM D665A.

Vactra Light and DTE Light do not.

Data sheets:

Vactra Numbered: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENINDMOMobil_Vactra_Numbered.asp
Vactra Named: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENINDMOMobilVactraNamed_DoubleLetterSeries.asp
DTE Named: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENINDMOMobil_DTE_Named.asp

- Leigh

The real Leigh · May 16, 2008

macona said:
My manual says medium heavy in the central box and light in the bearings.

Interesting.

I have three square-dial manuals (plus a 1965 PDF) and four lubrication manuals. The one set (Op + Lube) which appears to be oldest shows the medium heavy in the middle and light for the spindle bearings in both manuals. All the others show light for all three locations.

This manual does show S.A.E. grades for the lubricants: 10 for the spindle bearings and 20 for the headstock gearbox.

Both manuals showing medium heavy identify it as Gargoyle Vactra, while the other (presumably later) manuals show it as Mobil Vactra. The photos match my August 1957 square-dial, but the same can be said for the other lube manuals.

Unfortunately none of this documentation is dated.

- Leigh

rke[pler · May 17, 2008

The real Leigh said:
Vactra #2 passes the Rust Protection Test per ASTM D665A.

Vactra Light and DTE Light do not.

I think you're misreading the Vactra Light and DTE Light charts, they both pass for both distilled and sea water.

Rust protection, ASTM D665: Distilled WaterPassPassPassPass PassPassPassPassPass

rke[pler · May 17, 2008

macona said:
My manual says medium heavy in the central box and light in the bearings.

But my machine likes to transfer oil from the central box to the front bearing so it always overflows.

That's an old manual, the latest one I have that has that is a 1951 or so, everything after it has Vactra Light in both.

Mine loses from the front bearing into the main housing, about 8-12 pumps on the oil can a week. It overflows the middle sump (after spraying all over the place inside) and ends up in the coolant tank under the chip tray. I thinks there's a couple of gallons in there that I'll have to pump out "one of these days". Good thing I don't use flood coolant...

donie · May 17, 2008

Russ, my 51 does the same thing! With an odd twist, sometimes the oil in the front bearing will drop overnight, but not often.

rimcanyon · May 17, 2008

I spoke with a Mobil application engineer about oils for my 1940 round dial. They have extensive product information that cross references with the old recommendations and the old oil properties. The recommendation was DTE 24 for the spindle bearings, not DTE light. For the bottom of the headstock, the threading gearbox and the 2speed gearbox, the recommendation is Vactra heavy medium, not DTE.

-Dave

Cal Haines · May 17, 2008

rimcanyon said:
I spoke with a Mobil application engineer about oils for my 1940 round dial. They have extensive product information that cross references with the old recommendations and the old oil properties. The recommendation was DTE 24 for the spindle bearings, not DTE light. ...

-Dave

Interesting. I went through exactly the same exercise and Mobile recommended DTE Light and DTE Heavy Medium.

My machine's spindle bearings also drain down over a day or two. I had assumed that they drain into the center of the headstock. It's interesting to note that there are no drain plugs for the spindle bearings. The only way to get old oil out appears to be by removing the sight glasses.

Has anyone who has rebuilt an older headstock had a look at the oil passages in the spindle bearings? The 1939 10EE patent does not show any drains (see figs 7 & 14).

Cal

macona · May 17, 2008

There are no drains in the bearing chambers. To drain you pull the sight glass.

My best guess is that oil transfers from the center to the front from the slinging action of the tach gears. About the only way I can think that oil could get past the spindle shaft.

peterh5322 · May 18, 2008

"The recommendation was DTE 24 for the spindle bearings, not DTE light. For the bottom of the headstock, the threading gearbox and the 2speed gearbox, the recommendation is Vactra heavy medium, not DTE."

The DTE "numbered" and the Vactra "named" exchanged places.

Vactra heavy medium (all gear boxes, not the spindle) is now DTE Heavy Medium.

DTE #2 (apron and tailstock oiling systems) is now Vactra #2.

I'm guessing the recommended DTE #24 is now DTE Light, as that's what Monarch recommends for the spindle bearings of its modern 10EEs (not that the round dials aren't "modern" ... perhaps the very early round dials had a different recommendation).

Anyway, the spindle bearings take a light circulating oil, the gearboxes take a heavy medium circulating oil, and the ways take a medium way oil.

Others, particularly Donie, have come up with crosses to competitive oils (Kendall, in Donie's case) which have the same performance characteristics.

rimcanyon · May 18, 2008

DTE light is ISO 32, so slightly heavier than DTE 24. Perhaps the recommendation was changed when Mobil stopped making the DTE numbered series and reduced the number of oils they sell. The recommendation was in force when I bought my 1940 10EE (1998), so presumably DTE light is the closest currently available.

peterh5322 · May 18, 2008

"The recommendation was in force when I bought my 1940 10EE (1998), so presumably DTE light is the closest currently available."

Sounds right.

rke[pler · May 18, 2008

rimcanyon said:
DTE light is ISO 32, so slightly heavier than DTE 24. Perhaps the recommendation was changed when Mobil stopped making the DTE numbered series and reduced the number of oils they sell. The recommendation was in force when I bought my 1940 10EE (1998), so presumably DTE light is the closest currently available.

DTE 24 is also ISO 32, says so right here: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENINDMOMobil_DTE_20.asp

10 EE head stock lube

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