Newbies Oops Gunshow Buy

Hey Guys,

I'm a long time lurker of the forums. I always enjoy reading about everybody's projects. I'm long winded so to skip the back story just go down to the frown face.

On Friday I went to a gun show looking for a gopher gun for my dad. I ended up bringing home a western field 410 made by mossberg from the 30's.

Now while wandering the show I found a gun that tugged at my heart strings a 30-40 krag. I first hunted with a Krag and took my first 7 deer with it. I loved that gun. Unfortunately after my grandfather passed away my grandmother gave it to my uncle who also dragged it around when he was a kid. I ended up getting a K98 Mauser which was almost my first gun but I chose the krag instead because it was neater looking. Anyways I digress. The krag was the cheapest I've ever seen locally. I've seen some go for less on gunbroker but by the time you add shipping and fees there up to around 3-4 hundred.

This gun was sporterized and looked a lot like my old one. It had nice original stock that was cut down it had a neat old leather sling which i've found out is a 1903 springfield one. The bluing was mostly there. The gun kind of looked like crap because the seller never even cleaned it. I looked down the barrel and it was filled with junk which had me concerned. A neighboring vendor had a bore snake and after a few swipes it cleaned up pretty well. The only other two things I saw were it was missing the cutoff switch and it had one flat and one dovetail milled into the barrel right before the receiver. But i thought it would make for a good shooter.

We agreed on $190 and I took it home with me thinking I got a great deal. Once home i started cleaning it. I looked up how to take the bolt out so I could do a real good job. I spent a hour on the bore and it looks pretty nice. No pitting and the rifling is nice. A unfired round seats in the muzzle like it should and doesn't go up to the brass.

While cleaning the bolt I noticed a crack going out in both directions from the locking lug. It must have had a hot hand load fired from it at some point. My good deal went to a bad one with that find. It almost looks like somebody tried to weld it. As some material is missing from filing or grinding. Now i see the bolt also seats by the guide rib. Which acts as a safety lug along with the bolt handle. The guide rib did not seat from the armory. This is usually caused from stretching of the bolt or somebody lapping the main lug down so the safety lug will contact. This was thought to add strength back in the day by giving you two lugs. But if your main lug fails it can cause the receiver to crack if you keep shooting it like that.

Can I save the bolt? I'd hate to throw the original one out since it's been in the gun since 1898. The bolt was case hardened from the factory. I was thinking about grinding the crack down and slowly filling it with weld. Then filing the weld down. I was hoping that would keep most of the original case hardening intact on the rest of the bolt. The softer weld would be protected by the harder steel in front and behind it. I also was thinking about building up the locking lug face on the bolt as well.

Is this idea even remotely sane or should I bag the old bolt and find a new one?

Now the other thing I'd like to do is fix the bubba on the barrel. I've seen guys plug weld scope holes but never something as large as the flats machined on this one. Does anybody have any ideas? I have access to a lathe at work but I'm not experienced with using one at all. Worst case fix would be to find a original hand guard that covers the area and forget about it.

Thanks

WBCo

After doing more research I don't think I'm going to mess with the bolt.

Any advice on fixing the milled flats on the barrel?

WBCo said:

After doing more research I don't think I'm going to mess with the bolt.

Any advice on fixing the milled flats on the barrel?

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Good call on the bolt.

The dovetail can be filled in with a appropriately fitted piece of steel and low temp soldered or epoxied or peened.

I personally don't like the idea of heating a barrel, let alone welding and would go with epoxied or peened. Peened if I was going to refinish the barrel.

Thanks for the tip Doug. I did a lot of reading today about all the dangers of welding on a barrel. I was leaning towards epoxy but the idea of soldering steel in doesn't sound too bad. Should I be worried about the strength of the barrel being compromised by the flat and dovetail? Both of them are above the chamber. The flat is only about 1/16 of an inch deep. The dovetail might be 1/8" deep. I would think that sight screws in this area would go down deeper than that.

WBCo said:

Thanks for the tip Doug. I did a lot of reading today about all the dangers of welding on a barrel. I was leaning towards epoxy but the idea of soldering steel in doesn't sound too bad. Should I be worried about the strength of the barrel being compromised by the flat and dovetail? Both of them are above the chamber. The flat is only about 1/16 of an inch deep. The dovetail might be 1/8" deep. I would think that sight screws in this area would go down deeper than that.

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Doesn't sound like they are deep enough to compromise the barrel.
The military barrel isn't exactly a lightweight contour.
One wonders if hot handloads caused the bolt lug to crack?

Perhaps at this point you would be better off finding another Krag.
By the time you find a bolt, deal with whatever headspace issues result, the barrel etc, you might find one that needs some of the parts you have.

In other words is a $190 wall hanger worth putting the $$$ into a bolt, headspace gauges, a reamer if needed, setting back a marginal barrel with a flat and dovetail or just start from scratch with a new lower end blank Adams & Bennet or Green Mountain?

I would set it aside, or hang it and keep an eye out for a bargain bolt, good used reamer & gauges and rebarrel it with a GM $50 barrel blank. Then sell off the reamer and gauges.
But I work for free on my gun projects.

1898 Krag bolts can be purchased from Numrich Gun Parts, they have them listed as being in stock.

Buck

And new carbine and rifle barrels short chambered and turned to correct profile can be purchased from the CMP.

Ugg,

We all make mistakes, and thats fine. Putting the bolt back in, smearing some greese on the cracks and taking it back to a gunshow for another sucker is tempting, but highly unethical, and with all the paperwork involved firearms transactions, it could even create a significant personal liability. Take knocks and learn from them.

The question is do you repare it or just hang it on the wall.
The gun is perfectly safe hanging on the wall, but what happens when your grandson inherits it and decides to shoot it. You may not have the opertunity to advise him of the defective bolt.

In my opinion, the defective bolt should be striped for parts and then tossed out. The repair atempts you mentioned are poor at best and may be down right dangerous. Its certanly a red flag that says look over everything very carefully. You may find more than a comprimised bolt.

You can replace the bolt and see what the headspaceing looks like. The problem with just droping in a second hand bolt is, you have to finish the headspacing job before the gun is truely safe to shoot again. Chances are it will not head space correctly and you will have quite a bit of aditional lathe work to do. It may not be cost effective to continue this project unless you can do the work yourself.

Its already been sporterized, so setting the barel back is not going to be detrimental to its status as a collectable.

A dove tail in that location is most likely for some kind of sight base. Fill in spacers for sight bases are available, as are flip down sights and other toys that might provide better camoflage. Sometimes documenting a modification and calling it a feature is the best way to hide it.

Thanks for the info guys. I found a gentlemen that sells good used bolt bodies for $35. I guess there are even NOS bodies floating around for less than $100. Don't worry about me trying to weld on the bolt or barrel. I was just wondering if it could be done. Being a car guy i can weld/fix just about anything, but I realize why it can't/shouldn't be done now. Just as I wouldn't try to weld a broken tie rod or ball joint.

I'll get it back into shooting shape. I'd like to get my original gun from my uncle, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

From what I read Krags aren't prone to head space issues. Maybe I'll luck out with the new bolt. Now do I need to buy a headspace gauges or can I use a feeler gauge and measure the clearance between the receiver and the guide rib before and after putting a spent shell into the chamber? Maybe use some modeling clay or candle wax?

Headspace guages.
Or take it to someone who has them.

If the new bolt closes on a factory case, you can check the headspace this way: Cut a piece of shimstock small enough to fit on and cover the boltface. A small dab of grease will hold it there. Attempt to close the bolt. If you use a .005 piece of shimstock and it closes with a slight feel, you're good to go. If you can put a .008 piece of shimstock and still close the bolt, you are going to have to set the barrel back and re-chamber. I have to say -use an empty case!
Maybe you will be lucky and a factory case will chamber with a slight feel to the closing of the bolt. Good luck!

ricksplace 1 has given good advice and a cracked bolt lug on a Krag is not unheard of. Don't dispair as there are replacements available. Now I'm going to step out on a limb..........

If you end up with headspace issue using a replacement Krag bolt, I'll be suprised. I collect surplus military bolt action rifles and have for many years. I've had to relace bolts on Mausers, Enfields, P-14's, etc. for various reasons and the only headspace issue was with British Enfields. The Brits even issued a series of replaceable bolt heads so that armorers could bring the gun back into spec if necessary. The Mausers were made by many different countries over the years and yet the parts "fit" with very few problems.

Now, regarding U.S. made rifles.......the quality at the arsenals was superb during that time. Tolerances were held very closely, using guages and multiple checks. I'm not saying that you shouldn't check the headspace, far from it, but since the Krag headspaces on the rim an "excessive headspace" problem would be pretty unusual.

As for the barrel, will it shoot? If it's accurate don't worry about it. One of my favorite rifles is a Krag I picked up in a pawn shop for $65. The previous owner had cut the stock down to carbine length and then decorated it with swirls of gold fingernail polish. After a couple days of stripping, cleaning and refinishing I have a very nice carbine complete with an antique sling. Shoots like a house afire too!

Edit: If you can find a copy of "Hatcher's Notebook" at the library it will relieve your mind somewhat. Julian Hatcher was an ordnance officer for the U.S. Army for many years and had first hand experience in the testing and evaluating of all service arms at that time, including the Krag. Instead of opinion he dealt in facts and you'll find his remarks on the Krag very detailed, including the one locking lug issue. In short, in his opinion "excessive headspace" in many rifles was blown way out of proportion to the actual danger. Warning: once you get a copy of his book you'll find yourself glued to it for days!

One wild thing about Krags, they will according to some reports due to the single locking shoot high if the action is soaked with water from a heavy rain. This according to match shooters back in the day anyway. I have never found a smoother action to operate than a Krag.