What is the best old lathe out there

We are looking for some old modern iron 1960 and newer in the 20'' range.My favorites are Monarch 62,W+S 2A+3A.We turn a fair amount of 316,4150 and superalloys up to12'' dia.Give me some ideas please.

The "big" Lodge & Shipley Powerturn

The "big" "squarehead" American Pacemaker

I would say the L&S, Pacemakers and Big Monarchs Series 62 and 612's. There are a few later but still affordable others that come to mind. The Okuma and Mori-Seiki lathes are really very nice machines. If you don't need a really long bed there are quite a few of all of the above for reasonable prices. Less than you would pay for a new modest sized lathe shaped lump.

Steve

Good suggestions but need to know a bit more about what your work for the machine will be besides materials and maximum diameter. What tolerances and material removal rates do you need for instance.

Don't quite understand the turret lathes included in your list of likes, do you want a general purpose engine lathe or a turret lathe? They're different animals for different work.

In any case what matters most in older machines is condition, condition, condition. Next is support if it's going to be money making workhorse.

I was thinking in terms of the e.l. and turret compliment one another.I'm from the school of if one can do it in a turret it's faster ad easier.Els are for long shafts,profile,faceplate,ect.As far as tolerance is concerned,we never had any problem doing bearing dias in a turret but most spigot fits we do are +- a half or +001 -0.The reason I picked those is stricly qualitative for longentivity and mostly ease of control.Model62 has servo shift and double lock tailstock.2A is metal eating monster that can embarres the most krassiest operator.Also I agree with the idea of support.The place I work at now has been in business for a long tme ,but productivity means virtually nothing to them since throughout the years they were handed a blank check by the vendors they worked for,things are changing

Please let me know your opinions I appreciate the ideas so far especially the lodge and shipleys PT which I have run and thought to be outstanding in precision and comfortI may sound opinionated at times but have seen outstanding results consistanly from well developed cells over a long lenght of time.The more diverse opinions give food for mental thought for future machinery possible comittments.Thanx for all

Dig into this for starters, there's more here than you might imagine.

Machine Tool REFERENCE ARCHIVE

Look into the good suggestions already made which address your sketchy inquiry and non-responsive follow up posts.

Lodge & Shipley Power Turn ,Monarch 62 are "top notch "
I have 7 lathes in my shop ..Mauser, (3)Standard Modern ,Hardinge
I use the Lodge & Shipley the most..
There are others out there.. but you ask for the best..

Robbie

Thanks Dave and Robbie.Dave for the link and Robbie for your opinion,But Dave,what do you mean by sketchy and unresponsive.We're talking about general job shop machining which can be anything.Please expand and I'll be more specific.Ihave experience but still need to learn.Thanks

Sorry, not trying to bust your chops. The original question was "What is the best old lathe out there" made after 1960 with some vague material and diameter information. Nothing about workpiece length, weight or information about how much horsepower let alone spindle speed range needed.

Complicating factors are including both engine lathes and turret lathes in the same question.

Non-responsive refers to a gentle nudge to provide more information in #5 of this thread.

There's just not enough information to hand you a solution. You're asking about 50 year old and newer machines. That's a very wide menu to choose from. Finding one of the best in great condition at a price point (travel, inspecting, purchase, shipping, rigging, powering, etc.) can be be a large challenge for some. If not prepared for all of it, choose another path.

Don't need to add the list already mentioned by others, they're my picks too for what isn't rare. However this class of fine manual machines is dwindling, get good ones while you can and best of good fortune making great money with them.

IMO a good Axelson lathe is hard to beat. I have ran monarchs, leblonds, american pacemakers and one lodge and shipley and to me, hands down the axelsons I have ran are the best.

Dave ,I really want to thank you for the time you spent already I'll try to give you an example and I know you will understand.At work they always have to drill out or slug holes in that tough matl. as mentioned before sometimes up to a dozen parts up to 2 or 3 inch dia.We do it by hand the old fashioned way.The parts are as much as a foot long.We are talking about gear blanks,case rings,pump shaft spacers,bearing housings.Every machine has a 4 jaw and thats it (import junk els).I'ts brutal on the men.I'm trying to convince them on how manual turning can be done and I agree with all you said.I was lucky years ago to run the Monarch,the L+SPTand 2A all within 20 ft.of one another with access to every piece of tooling imaginable.Like cellular work centers.Those were the good old days.Billy what's an Axelson?

Seems like the question really is- "What WAS the best lathe when they were new?".

Because used lathes are like used cars- no matter how good they were when they were new, every one is different, with different problems, when they are 40 or 50 years old.

And all of these lathes are pretty much that old.

I think a really interesting story to read is Joe Micheals account of his company buying, and having rebuilt, a 25" Leblond.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/leblond-heavy-duty-engine-lathe-79331/

The original lathe was a great machine- but this was 50 years ago, and a lotta miles under the bridge. Joe paid to have it modernized and rebuilt, and it ended up costing $55,000 or so, and that was in 2004. Factor in inflation, and the fact that shops capable of this level of rebuild are far fewer now than a mere 8 years ago, and I think you would realistically be talking more like $75k now.

Yancey, the shop in Portland that did Joe's lathe, is gone.

Now, admittedly, they had it converted to an infinitely variable speed AC drive, with DRO, but with today's materials, thats not a luxury, its a very handy thing to have done.

There are a fewer and fewer good old lathes out there- many of these machines have been out of production since 1970 or so.
I am not saying there are NO good ones left- but most will require some degree of rebuilding, and you need to account for that when buying.

Just like when I buy really cheap used cars, I figure an extra grand for all new tires (they always need em) a new battery, belts, a tuneup, and the misc thing that will go in the first month- usually the starter or alternator. When machines get old, people scrimp on maintenance, and the new buyer always gets stuck with it.

Ries and Dave bring up the real issue of finding and using any of the a fore mentioned machines. As wonderful as they were new, they are are quite old at this point in time. The used car analogy is good but, there is far more variability in each machine. A lathe used in production for 30 years vs a lathe that spent 40 years in a support role. Finding a machine that is not only a good model but also in good condition is elusive. There is really no way to equate price to condition either. When I was looking for my lathes I saw gems at bargain prices and worn out piles for top dollar.

The two lathes I own a Monarch 10EE and Series 62 2013 are both in remarkably good condition, not for how old they are, they are in remarkable condition period. Both came from major companies Delco/ Delphi for the 10EE and Standard Oil for the 62. I don't think either machine was in production, both machines show too little wear. Both machines were purchased from machinery dealers not individuals and both machines were very good values. The price paid for these was as good or better than private party / eBay pricing. I did not inspect the 10EE in person before I bought it, I did inspect the 62. I also considered a lot of other machines, looking at eBay, Surplus Record, Machine tools dot com and even Craig's List.

The steps I take in finding machines is; identifying what I want, researching the machines to the nth degree and, searching all available models. Then I start developing a pool of machines to consider. Only then do I actually start shopping. It takes a while, I spent over a year looking for the "right" 10EE and about 8 months looking for the 62. Most of this is e-mail and phone calls with little to no direct expense. The time spent is however significant.

Are there "good" old machines out there for sale; yes but, you have to somewhat flexible in exact model and features. You also have know when you find a great machine it will have some issues as Ries mentioned. Both my lathes had issues that were unattractive to many buyers. Both were issues with expensive systems that are somewhat misunderstood by most people sellers and users alike.

Steve

I own a 1951 Axelson 14" and use it daily, occassionally my entire day is spent in front of it. I'd wanted an Axelson since working on one and being impressed with how it was put together. I was in awe over how quiet and smooth it was in any speed and had to have it. I've done some repairs and adjustments to the lathe, all of which were straightforward. The Axelsons were not just built to sell. They were built to last indefinitely with repairs and rebuilds in mind from the beginning.

I really enjoy using it. The control layout and versatility is excellent. The lube systems on the older machines are usually lacking. The Axelson headstock lube system is excellent, even has it's own cartridge filter. The apron oiling system is as well with simple flow adjustments to optimize oil flow for different feedrates and carriage loads.

Anyone who designs and builds things who takes a close look at an Axelson will appreciate how well they were made. There were several great lathe manufacturers, but few focused solely on heavy production style engine lathes.

Here is the final results.-#1 Model62 #1a L+S PT #3AM SH.Now,all you guys that profressionally ran a2A chime in.Thats rite profressionally.

langston2497 said:

Here is the final results.-#1 Model62 #1a L+S PT #3AM SH.Now,all you guys that profressionally ran a2A chime in.Thats rite profressionally.

Click to expand...

Are you writing in a secret code?

billye1982 said:

IMO
hands down the axelsons I have ran are the best.

Click to expand...

I second and third that on Axelsons!!!!

Tough call on Monarch, American Pacemakers, I've run those, too!

Can't wait to fire up my L & S!!!

Ken

Garwood said:

Are you writing in a secret code?

Click to expand...

Perfect question!

Secret code?Ifound a good German machine in spite of our good old iron, it's called an Egnimatic they used it to produce machines for the typewriter industry.Most of them are in use in South America these days.