Monarch collet closer installation

My EE has a Royal closer, but I want to install the Monarch I have(maybe). Photo( I hope) shows what I have. Don't know if it's all there. I also have a Jacobs flex system and a Hardinge 2J system. My Hardinge TBF has collets so I'm wondering if I need all the 5c stuff. I'm looking at need rather than want. Would anyone venture their favorite system? Thanks for input, Randy

Your Monarch 5-C attachment looks complete. The bracket is attached on the rear of the HS, except that there is supposed to be a mounting pad on the HS for the bracket. I looked in the "Wreck Update" and I don't have any pictures of the backside. The bracket pad stands about 1/8" off the HS. Be very careful about drilling holes back there, I don't know how thick the casting is.
I'll try to remember to take a picture tomorrow.
I think that particular style is for the Modular machines.
Harry

beckley23 said:

Your Monarch 5-C attachment looks complete. The bracket is attached on the rear of the HS, except that there is supposed to be a mounting pad on the HS for the bracket. I looked in the "Wreck Update" and I don't have any pictures of the backside. The bracket pad stands about 1/8" off the HS. Be very careful about drilling holes back there, I don't know how thick the casting is.
I'll try to remember to take a picture tomorrow.
I think that particular style is for the Modular machines.
Harry

Click to expand...

My 1977 (modular) 10EE had a collet closer like the one in the first picture. (And of course had the mounting pad cast on the back of the headstock). The problem I found with the set-up was that that rigid arm interfered with taking the end gear cover off which I occasionally wanted to do in order to put in change gears for cutting metric threads. The spindle pulley interfered above, an oil drain (fill?) pipe interfered to the right, I forget what's in the way below and the arm was the easiest thing to move out of the way. I finally made up a hand wheel collet closer and did away with the lever altogether. My sort of work in my home shop didn't really call for the hand lever set-up anyway.


David

Round-dial 10EEs and early square-dials used a two-piece upper cover with the yoke for the closer mounted to a cast ring bolted to the upper half. The bottom half of the cover could be removed for access to the change gears without removing the top half. To remove the top you you just had to pull the pin that held the yoke to the clevis and slide it off of the closer. There's some pictures in this thread:


Cal

I don't have any problem taking the top cover off with the bracket arm in place. Just pull the hinge pin, remove the draw tube, and the cover is ready to come off.
You're correct, it is a PITA to change the gear ratio from the HS to the QCGB, that's why I never considered making a set of metric change gears for the lathe.
Harry

Thanks to all for the input. Glad I asked before doing something I'd regret. Gotta keep the stupids to a minimum. I do have a set of the older covers, but they look clunky compared to what I have on it. Mine is a 1956 and the covers are not original. I have a build sheet coming from Monarch and that may shed some light.
My next head scratcher is the taper attachment. Thanks again, Randy

Pictures of the backside with the collet closer. The biggest problem you're going have is centering the ring bracket on the spindle. There is a little wiggle room vertically with the bearing adjusting screws, and there may a little room horizontally, but not much. One piece I couldn't see in your picture is the notched ring. Take a look at the last few posts in the "Wreck Update". The notched ring is shown post #247. There is roll pin pressed in that engages a hole the rear bearing lock nut which provides the connection to the spindle.







Harry

Much appreciation for the photos and info. I wondered how it "hooked" to the spindle. Nice EE. Love that blue. Best, Randy

I cannot think of why that rigid arm cannot be on a hinge so you can remove the cover. OP's royal[and my enco] have that joint a a pivot. Mine is actually mounted to the cover and I 'deal' with the squishiness of the actuation

The hinge pin shown in the third picture is pulled, and the entire draw tube assembly is removed, the top latch is undone, and then the cover can be removed. The bracket attached to the rear of the headstock stays in place. The entire operation takes about 30 seconds, after the collet is removed. Getting the front end of the spindle cleared takes a bit longer, the hood has to be removed, 3 screws then the 5-C nosepiece.
Harry

old_dave said:

My 1977 (modular) 10EE had a collet closer like the one in the first picture. (And of course had the mounting pad cast on the back of the headstock). The problem I found with the set-up was that that rigid arm interfered with taking the end gear cover off which I occasionally wanted to do in order to put in change gears for cutting metric threads. The spindle pulley interfered above, an oil drain (fill?) pipe interfered to the right, I forget what's in the way below and the arm was the easiest thing to move out of the way. I finally made up a hand wheel collet closer and did away with the lever altogether. My sort of work in my home shop didn't really call for the hand lever set-up anyway.


David

Click to expand...

Just to clarify, the end gear cover I refer to in my posting of May 7 is the cover that's behind the spindle pulley/vee belts/flat belt/ flat belt idler. It's the gray primered cover shown in the attached photograph. Yes, the top cover was easy enough to take off with my hand lever collet closer. As was mentioned, just pull the pin and take out and away the hand lever and draw tube. The top cover was then easy enough to maneuver off past the rigid collet closer arm. The problem was getting the gray primered cover off when I needed to install the metric transposing and change gears when I wanted to cut metric threads. Of course the vee belts, the flat belt and the flat belt idler were removed. But the cover couldn't be taken away to the left because the collet closer arm was in the way, the spindle pulley and the flat belt pulley interfered with the cover coming out towards me, and the oil drain tube to the right (you can see its hexed cap) kept me from moving the cover out that way.
Of all these interferences, the collet closer arm was the simplest to remove. It was located by two spring pins and on replacing, its position didn't repeat all that well. Finally I decided that for the sort of work I do, basically one-offs, that a hand wheel closer would be simpler to use any way. I too have seen 10EE hand lever collet closer set-ups with an articulated arm, but that's not what came with my lathe.

David

"The problem was getting the gray primered cover off when I needed to install the metric transposing and change gears when I wanted to cut metric threads. Of course the vee belts, the flat belt and the flat belt idler were removed."

That is the reason I didn't make the metric change gears.
Harry