What is missing from the front compartment?

Hi All,

Looking at a used Monarch which seems to be missing a bunch of stuff in the front compartment.

What's missing and is it easily found?

Any body like to put a cost on the missing contents?

Call 937.492.4111. They will be happy to help.

Left-hand side, underneath the headstock:

EVERYTHING is missing.

What SHOULD be found here include: the Module, the pair of C16Js, the single C3J, two filament transformers, one for each C16J (each rated 2.5 volts at 33 amps) and a blower.

Right-hand side, underneath the bed:

EVERYTHING is missing.

What SHOULD be found here include: several "sensitive" relays, a number of dc contactors, a number of ac contactors, and lots of neatly laid-out wiring, plus a safety switch main disconnect.


CHECK: underneath the tailstock inside the machine.

You SHOULD find a 230/460 to 300-0-300 anode transformer of significant proportions (rated about 6 KVA).


CHECK: inside the left-hand cover, on the bottom.

You SHOULD find a 5 HP GE or equal specially-made dc machine which has a base speed of about 1,100 rpm, connected to that would be a 6:1 reduction backgear unit and, of course, all the sheaves and belts to the spindle.


If, as I fear, ALL of those items are missing, the machine has a LONG way to go before it can be serviceable.

If the dc motor is there, and if it still has its backgear unit, then a VFD conversion might be feasible.

Otherwise a BICL conversion COULD be considered.

If the dc motor and its backgear are gone, a BICL conversion is outa-the-ballpark, and you should go directly to a VFD conversion, if you are up to it.

Machine is supposed to be 1975 vintage.

What sort of cost would be involved in replacing missing electrical contents?

Here are some other pictures:
[/URL[URL=http://s227.photobucket.com/user/jonjeffreys/media/IMG_1130-1.jpg.html]

I am MORE than a little confused.

The FIRST set of photos were as I described: a completely stripped machine.

The SECOND set of photos shows all of the parts miraculously reappearing, as if the machine had been resurrected from the dead.

I think that the compartment under the headstock is showing the missing parts, the other compartment with the equipment is under the bed.

I have not seen the machine but I am interested in looking at it. I am not familiar with the 10ee. Looking at it as an upgrade from my SB 10L.

No tooling but supposedly intact mechanically. Three phase 5 HP motor. Obviously not in running condition.

Thoughts?

Could it be that it is just the Alan Bradley starter is missing??

OK - looks like the same machine that is (was) listed in Norton MA. First pics (at least now) show just the front compartment under bed - look relatively unmolested. As Peter stated under the headstock it is missing everything. Wild ass guess would be to budget $1K and plenty of patience to get the parts here, monarch may have some and would likely cost a bunch more.

I still have not seen this machine but have traded messages with the seller. He pulled the ad from CL as he got lots of response including people offering more than he was asking (at least that's what he said). Seems to think he needs to get a better idea on value now before selling.

I'm foreseeing a similar situation that happened locally a couple years ago in that case a seller in Beverly MA had listed a nice model 60 or 61 (I think) very well tooled, then realized he may have priced it to low, pulled it from CL and put it on Ebay at an inflated price where it sat for about a year (don't know what ever happened to it).

Paul

Paul,
Yes it is, sounds like we have been having the same conversation!
I did not realize the interest in 10 ee was so fierce.

I thought he pulled the ad because he sold it. The pictures tell a better story now.
Thanks again Paul for your kind offer to look at this lathe for me.

You stated earlier "Three phase 5 HP motor"--NO WAY. This is a Monarch 10EE and the drive motor is a DC motor, 230 volt armature, 115 volt field.

See Peter's comments about the compartment under the headstock. The 16J tubes cost $1000 each new and used ones go for $200 plus. You need the tube holders. A used module will cost about $150 to 250, plus the transformers.
Do not kid yourself about fixing it cheaply. This machine makes a South Bend look like childs play to repair. I know as I have 5 South Bends and 2 Monarch 10EEs. I have repaired one 10EE modular, which this one is, and one Wiad. The electronics / electricals are quite complicated for me and I have a good background in motor controls but not any background in vacuum tube DC power supplies.

I would consider this machine as a candidate for a drive conversion. A Beel Industrial DC drive is about $1500, more or less, and would replace all the DC power supplies but retain the DC motor, backgear drive, etc. I have no expierence with these.
If you have 3 phase power available, you can get a Polyspede "Spedester" DC drive to power the 10EE DC motor. Installing it will be a challenge but is within reason. The "Spedester" cost about $1700.
Third option is to retrofit it with an AC motor and VFD drive. This is not so expensive but the mechanical work to adapt the existing backgear to a AC motor is considerable. You could run this from single phase or from three phase if the correct VFD is installed. See the STICKY about VFD conversions.

Here is a link to some photos I found online. These show the parts missing from your compartment under the headstock.

10EE Intro - CRW_0189

Toolnut,
I did not say the motor was AC only that it was 5HP, the machine requires three phase power if it was complete.

That is a great link that you sent and makes everything clear.

I will try to get a look at it but I think it might be beyond my budget and available time for a restoration project.

It has certainly opened my eyes to the possibility of a lathe to supersede my 10L

"I did not say the motor was AC only that it was 5HP, the machine requires three phase power if it was complete."

Monarch may be the "king" of dc drive super-precision toolroom-class lathes.

5 HP and below is always single-phase, unless the drive system is the late model (1980s) "Monarch Sidney" drive which is solid-state. The earlier drives were either vacuum tubes or a motor-generator. The motor-generator was also three-phase.

In the 20 HP range, Monarch drives are three-phase. This would be the legendary EE1000, which employed a "six-phase" phase-controlled rectifier for the armature, but a "two-phase" phase controlled rectifier for the field. The predecessor was the 13EE, and this was also motor-generator, hence was also three-phase.


Incidentally, Polyspede makes single-phase-only VFDs which can control 5 HP or larger ac motors, should single-phase be a requirement.

jeffers,
As peter states (and is detailed many times via search) these drives run on single phase. Mine runs on that now. The only thing 3 phase would be needed for is the coolant pump if so equipped, and there are plenty of options available should you wish to use coolant.

At this point I'm not even going to bother taking a look at that machine. However, if I were to take it on as a project I would try to make one of two paths work, if time is not an issue wait around for the module, board, transformers, C16J's, etc to show up on ebay for reasonable prices (figure about 800-$1000 over maybe a year or two) or talk with Beil (I believe I have the spelling right) they have a replacement drive that will run the standard motor I think its about $1200-1500. They have listed it here and there has been some discussion but no feedback from anyone that has installed one.
So now your talking $2500-3000 with no tooling (and no transportation costs if you do not have equipment to move it). Add another 1-2K for tooling (it will go up from there but that would get you going) and your now in for 4 to 5K. For that you can find one that is not in need of major work with tooling, maybe higher with both taper and ELSR. So by my thinking it is priced in the right ballpark currently, if it shows virtually zero wear then it would be worth more.

These do show up in New England on a relatively regular basis.
Paul

There is so much missing from that drive, that a VFD conversion would be the cheapest alternative possible, and just as good as the original drive, and in some respects better.
Harry

I'm with Harry on this, a ELSR a T/A, at $1500 its a buy, sell the motor, and electrics $2-300. Buy a VFD $400, a Black Max motor $4-500, and fit the backgear to it. Now in 20 years the drive dies, buy another, if that $1000 modular drive fails, you will have to do a VFD anyway.

Machine has been sold for $2,200.
The search goes on!