10EE Belt Size/Tension

This has been beaten to death, but I could not make heads or tails. I needed to replace my belts on my '51 square dial MG (Reliance large frame) and what was on there was A85 (XB) belts. I ordered up a set of Goodyear A85 HY-T Matchmakers as the replacement. I immediately notice that the new belts were much tighter, but I could get them on without raising the motor. Doing so takes quite a bit of arm to roll it up over the spindle pulley. The belts are so tight that I am unable to install the left side idler (you can see it missing in the pic) because the belt wont budge more than a 1/2 inch or so.

If I run it as is, should I be concerned w the tension being to tight and putting excess load on the spindle bearings?

I tried to raise motor some, but when doing so it created a gab between the rubber and the motor plate and this didnt seem to feel right. I am thinking about test fitting another size, but was looking for feedback first.

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you should be able to get the second idler on.
Did you measure the old belt (or does it have A85 plainly printed on it)? A belts look to be available in 1" increments so you may want to try the next one up.

A quick google seems to indicate that belts are speced on the inside circumference (so the 85 is the inside cir. in inches) the outside circumference minus 2 should give the belt size number for "A" belts.

Paul

Its printed on the side of the belt. Im guessing that some take the measurements from the inside and others the outside? On my belt it says that its a A85, but in parenthesis it says 4L870. My understanding is that it means 87" which is measured from the outside and 85" being the inside. This is a bit of assumption on my part though. If this is true, that would still mean my belt should be similar to the other.

Im going to go ahead and order another pair a couple inches larger.

"On my belt it says that its a A85, but in parenthesis it says 4L870"

A "4L" (light duty, not rated for "ganging") is NOT the same as an "A" (heavy duty, rated for "ganging") belt.

Yes, there IS a difference in "trade size" and "actual size": 2 inches.

Which is why an A85 (which is normal for a large frame motor) is 87 when in a 4L belt.

Monarch has used several different methods of mounting its motors, and even several different types of belts.

The proper belts are those A belts which are long enough to allow adjustment of the tensioning system.

In your case, perhaps A87 belts are required.

The originals on my machines were by Browning. Goodyear might have been an option ... I don't know for sure.

In my own case, I replaced my 1945 large frame motor belts with Grainger's A85 and my 1956 small frame motor belts with Grainger's A90.

Grainger's belts are made to the same RMA (Rubber Manufacturer's Association) standards as Browning and others, for A-type belts (or B or whatever ... also AX, etcetera).

4L belts really have no place on a Monarch!

I hear you on the 4L and had previously read this prior to ordering and made a point not to order a 4L. I was surprised when I received the belts they said A85 (4L870) on them. The Goodyear Matchmaker belts are designed for ganging and are matched when produced.

Belts | V-Belt, Classic Wrapped A,B,C,D | Goodyear® Hy-T® Plus Classical Belt, A85 - Pkg Qty 8 | B734251 - GlobalIndustrial.com

I just got off the phone w a Goodyear engineer and got the story on the belts. Goodyear manufactures the A85 as a heavy duty ganged belt that is matched. It is also a "dual duty" w the 4L series. This means you can run the A85 as a heavy duty belt or as a 4L light duty belt, but not the other way around meaning you cant run one of their 4L belts as a A85. So the A85 HY-T seems to be the right belt series for the Monarch, but in my case the length is not right.

Hope this helps the next guy.

"A85 (4L870)"

In order to save on costs of goods sold, manufacturers are apparently reducing their production to a common part which can be used in two decidedly different applications.

4L (and 3L, plus others in the "light duty"/non-gangable series) can be pressed into gangable service (but not into heavy duty service) by the following procedure:

1) get a number of 4L belts together from a cooperative dealer and place them side-by side,

2) note the coded numbers on the edge of the belts (these are the master belt number AND the distance from the reference edge of the master belt for the subject belt),

3) sort the belts first by master belt number and second by distance from the reference edge number,

4) if not enough belts to satisfy your ganging application, ask for more belts,

5) otherwise, select those belts from the same master belt which are closest together from the reference edge.

On a Hardinge application, which originally used specially made Browning 3L belts which were factory matched, I was able to find from a group of six belts the required three belts which were almost in sequential order (distance) from the reference edge.

The Hardinge application did not need a heavy duty belt as the motor was only 3/4 HP, but this power was spread across three belts, hence the need for matching.

Alas, heavy duty belts were not made in the 3 form factor, otherwise I would imagine Hardinge would have specified a pair of such belts rather than three.

I keep chiming in with 3V belts as my EE came with them (and at least a few others). These are also designed for high HP, can be ganged and have a 3/8 width. In a quick look I did not find HP ratings and I have no idea when these were introduced so I'm not sure if they were an option for Hardinge.

There is a Gates belt chart here http://www.gates.com/catalogs/BELT I.D. CHART 2012 SM1.pdf so you can easily see the diferent cross sections.

Paul