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What to expect to pay for a smaller refurbished and automated used CMM?

scadvice

Titanium
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Location
"Stuck in Lodi", Ca
Suggestions & what to expect to pay for a smaller refurbished and automated used CMM?

We are looking for one and prefer to get it factory refurbished. A number of them out there but they are secretive about the prices. So I guessing about 40K and up to 60K

We can get by with a smaller machine like the DuraMax Ziess those new are about 70k. We don't need an auto-articulating head, but we can droll about it!:drool5:

I'm open to suggestions on machines to look at also.
 
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Need more information. What do you plan on measuring? Model based complex parts or just simple shapes?

I'm partial to the mitutoyo software/machomes on simple parts. It's really easy to use.

Definitely wouldnt recommend a machine without an auto articulating head.
 
We will be using solid moderately complex model. If we can afford a articulating head we will go that route. Multiple datum point fixturing will work in our case. We spend a lot of time inspecting and see the need for automation coming. Currently we are using a manual CMM.

90% of our parts are under a 6" x 6" cube.
 
Building a "star" probe yields better accuracy then the articulating head.

Steve hit up CMM Systems. They will be the ones in the area that will have the best idea on what to get and are very knowledgeable. I use them to calibrate our CMM's and almost bought an older DCC CMM from them with their Nikon software retrofit. Great family owned company.

CMM Systems Inc.: CMM Computer And CMM Accesories US
 
Respectfully disagree about star probes - they can be better, but that depends on your probing system. Analog probes, yes, but you aren't going to get into analog probes at your price point. The problem with star clusters and touch trigger probes is that most touch trigger probes (TTP) don't register hits on -Z surfaces, the hit is recorded by the deflection off center in the ±X/Y direction. The most common probe type is probably the Renishaw TP20, and while you can get what's called a 6-way module, the performance is.... well, we did some testing before and were less than impressed. Our customer couldn't justify the extra cost of those modules for the minuscule difference in accuracy. The other downside is building the cluster - it takes a while and once you get it set you don't want to tear it down. This will necessitate needing multiple modules and probably a probe changer (modules approx $600-1k each, probe changer $6.5K). Another problem with stars and TTP is the added weight, you have to make sure you get the correct modules for the build. If you're using a TP20 and a long build, you need to get an extended force module, which I completely despise and refuse to work with on automatic (DCC) machines.

The automatic probe heads have a stated 2 sigma positional accuracy of 0.5 (with a 20mm stylus, IIRC, it may be a 10). And I can say this with certainty - of the people I know who were considering an automatic head but opted for a manual, all regretted that decision. If you do decide to go that way, though, with the idea of upgrading down the road, have the machine pre-wired for it (you have to specify that when you order it). It will add a couple K at the outset, and save you at least twice that down the road. Also, don't try to get a PH9 because the price is good, those have been obsolete for nearly 10 years now and Renishaw is not supporting them. Repair is a PITA.

OEM refurbished prices are about 80% of new, for that you should be getting a machine that's been checked (at least should have been), with a warranty, and current software/firmware. You can check with a reputable 3rd party source. If you decide to go the auction or machinery clearing house route, budget in another 25-50% for repairs/retrofits.
 
"If you decide to go the auction or machinery clearing house route, budget in another 25-50% for repairs/retrofits." Not likely to go that route unless I knew the history of the machine and got it from one of our defense customers. We mostly likely cannot fork over a new price for one. OEM refurb is our thought. Ziess with Calypso would be machine of choice.
 
Respectfully disagree about star probes - they can be better, but that depends on your probing system. Analog probes, yes, but you aren't going to get into analog probes at your price point. The problem with star clusters and touch trigger probes is that most touch trigger probes (TTP) don't register hits on -Z surfaces, the hit is recorded by the deflection off center in the ±X/Y direction. The most common probe type is probably the Renishaw TP20, and while you can get what's called a 6-way module, the performance is.... well, we did some testing before and were less than impressed. Our customer couldn't justify the extra cost of those modules for the minuscule difference in accuracy. The other downside is building the cluster - it takes a while and once you get it set you don't want to tear it down. This will necessitate needing multiple modules and probably a probe changer (modules approx $600-1k each, probe changer $6.5K). Another problem with stars and TTP is the added weight, you have to make sure you get the correct modules for the build. If you're using a TP20 and a long build, you need to get an extended force module, which I completely despise and refuse to work with on automatic (DCC) machines.

The automatic probe heads have a stated 2 sigma positional accuracy of 0.5 (with a 20mm stylus, IIRC, it may be a 10). And I can say this with certainty - of the people I know who were considering an automatic head but opted for a manual, all regretted that decision. If you do decide to go that way, though, with the idea of upgrading down the road, have the machine pre-wired for it (you have to specify that when you order it). It will add a couple K at the outset, and save you at least twice that down the road. Also, don't try to get a PH9 because the price is good, those have been obsolete for nearly 10 years now and Renishaw is not supporting them. Repair is a PITA.

OEM refurbished prices are about 80% of new, for that you should be getting a machine that's been checked (at least should have been), with a warranty, and current software/firmware. You can check with a reputable 3rd party source. If you decide to go the auction or machinery clearing house route, budget in another 25-50% for repairs/retrofits.

I guess it comes down to a point. I was checking a part where it had 2 blind bores on opposite sides of a block that had to be in line of each other with a .001tp. Articulating head on our Contura G2 kept saying the parts were bad. Hard gaged it...parts are good. Did some research, talked to Zeiss rep, built a star probe, started getting results that mirrored the hard gaging efforts. Maybe our head just needs a "calibration". Idk. Then again .001 tp is a hard measurement to hold....
 








 
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