PVD Coating?

Butch Lambert · Oct 4, 2015

My barreled action will be here in about a week. Mark Brown and Brown Precision made a custom Kevlar hunting stock for it. It has a Pierce titanium receiver. I'm planning on using Balzars PVD WCC coating on it. Titanium is sticky.
I believe somebody suggested a PVD on the forum and I lost the post. I'm not interested in cerrokote or other painted finish.
Any help?

wesg · Oct 5, 2015

This one?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/surface-finishes-112-rockwell-307790/

Butch Lambert · Oct 5, 2015

B4Tech didn't have anybody that knew anything and was going to have somebody call back. Solar Atmosphere said the only did heat treating, but they had another plant that might do it. I left word on the answering machine. I hope they call back.

CalG · Oct 5, 2015

Butch, I'm not familiar with the Balzers WCC film per say, but it is much more likely that any physical vapor deposition using Ti. will result in an Oxide or sub oxide of titanium. (Tio2 TiO3 Ti2O5 etc TiOx for short)

Thes oxides are far different than "Ti" in regards to "sticky" .

Choose a vacuum coated surface treatment by specification, Not by "name".

Aluminum is soft, but Al2O3 is hard as garnet ;-)

Butch Lambert · Oct 5, 2015

CalG said:
Butch, I'm not familiar with the Balzers WCC film per say, but it is much more likely that any physical vapor deposition using Ti. will result in an Oxide or sub oxide of titanium. (Tio2 TiO3 Ti2O5 etc TiOx for short)

Thes oxides are far different than "Ti" in regards to "sticky" .

Choose a vacuum coated surface treatment by specification, Not by "name".

Aluminum is soft, but Al2O3 is hard as garnet ;-)

I am a one finger typer and responded and accidentally erased it. Thanks for your post. I have a couple acquaintances that mfg. titanium receivers. John Pierce and Stu Satterlie. They use and recommend the Balzar treatment.I believe they use the one listed below.

Prevent surface fatigue and tribo-oxidation with BALINIT C coating « Oerlikon Balzers

I have used salt bath nitrated"Melonite" on stainless and 4140. I really like it a lot. They can not or will not do Ti. It does make a very slick and durable finish.

CalG · Oct 5, 2015

Ahh WC/C Wolfram Carbide, Tungsten!

That would be both hard and slippery, and nothing like Ti at all, but could readily be applied on a Ti substrate.

I am not versed on any undesirable reactions of WC on Ti. That would be a question to answer. Some combinations of substrate and coating just do not play well together. Worth an ask.

I really should set up my vacuum coater for tribological coatings. It would be fun.

mkd · Oct 12, 2015

wonder if cutting tool coatings would work on TI base metal.

TiN? bright gold color would bling like Call of Duty

TiCN?

gusmadison · Oct 12, 2015

Butch,
How is that Blazers treatment applied? I'm not familiar with it or it's method of application.
Thanks,
Gus

CalG · Oct 12, 2015

The method is that of vacuum deposition. In this case plasma assisted. A plasma is a electrical discharge field. Like being inside a neon tube.

There are usually moderately high temperatures associated with the process.

The desired coating materials are introduced into the coating environment in a variety of ways, sometimes as a gas that might have quite a few transformations to go through before the desired metallic condenses onto the substrate. Sometimes as a thermal evaporation process, Cathodic arc process is becoming an established alternative. Sputtering can also be a useful option. I could not tell the details of the Balzers process during a skim of their web page.

The machine I have in my own lab is a plasma enhanced physical vapor deposition process. Very useful for high durability metal coatings. Reactive Nitrides and oxides are also processed. The equipment is somewhat under gunned for refractory metals.

CarbideBob · Oct 12, 2015

PVD...Physical Vapor Deposition.
Used on everything from cutting tools to cheap jewelry. If you have gold colored sink fixtures made in the last 20 years they are most likely PVD.
PVD Coatings | Physical Vapor Deposition Coatings | TiN | Titankote | Physical Vapor Deposition
Much more if you google PVD coating.
A fairly cheap process to get into, a 100K will set you up, and done at lower temps than CVD so often used on many things that don't like high heat (....read as steels).
Balzers would be one of the premier PVD houses and have a reputation for very high quality and consistency along with a wider selection than anywhere else.
Bob

Butch Lambert · Oct 12, 2015

mkd said:
wonder if cutting tool coatings would work on TI base metal.

TiN? bright gold color would bling like Call of Duty
TiCN?

I would paint it with waterbase paint and a brush before having any gold look to it. The Balzars PVD WCC has a graphite gray look.

CalG · Oct 12, 2015

To add to Bobs comments

PVD (physical vapor deposition) is not known for particularly robust coatings. PEPVD (plasma enhanced physical vapor deposition) is much better in that regard, with increased temperatures associated .

Ion Assisted ion beam sputter deposition is the cats pajamas . :-)

Here is a link that "might" display the many vacuum deposition methods to choose from. Each have their applications!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...s.pptx&usg=AFQjCNHBSzTdfGr-PVbhZv28UZp6U4lurA

tdmidget · Oct 12, 2015

For them to do a receiver you and they will have to have FFLs.

CalG · Oct 12, 2015

tdmidget said:
For them to do a receiver you and they will have to have FFLs.

Would Butch need one? It's his firearm.

steve-l · Oct 13, 2015

Golf clubs (metal woods) use PVD and it is amazingly durable, but with effort, it can chip. It can be done in many colors as well. However, I know of no job shops that would do one-off jobs. If someone knows of one, please speak up. Nor do I know if a previously surface coated with PVD can be re-done.

Butch Lambert · Oct 13, 2015

Steve,
The company that I am using is Balzars Oerlikon out of Germany. Do a search and you will find at least 13 different facilities in Germany.
Been around weapons for over 50yrs and had a FFL for several years. I do know the program.
They do one offs in the USA. I'll need to use their Massachusetts plant.

Butch Lambert · Oct 13, 2015

I will visit with them tomorrow hopefully as I have some traveling to do. Listed below is the process that I think I will use.

BALINIT C BALINIT C, with its low coefficient of friction and good sliding properties, is deployed mainly to reduce adhesive wear (scuffing, seizing, cold-welding) and can also withstand high loads at deficient lubrication or dry running.

oerlikon_coating_systems_140px_007.jpg&w=140

Surface fatigue (pitting) and tribo-oxidation (fretting corrosion) are largely prevented. Expensive base materials can often be replaced with less expensive steel. BALINIT® C is bio-compatible and foodstuff-neutral.

Coating Properties: BALINIT C
Coating Material	WC/C (a-C:H:W)
Microhardness* (HV 0.05)	1,500 / 1,000
Friction coefficient* against steel (dry)	0.1 - 0.2
Max. service temperature (°C)	300
Coating colour	anthracite

CalG · Oct 13, 2015

Here is a link to a useful summary of the coating type.

Mechanical and tribological evaluation of PVD WC/C coatings

CarbideBob · Oct 13, 2015

steve-l said:
Golf clubs (metal woods) use PVD and it is amazingly durable, but with effort, it can chip. It can be done in many colors as well. However, I know of no job shops that would do one-off jobs. If someone knows of one, please speak up. Nor do I know if a previously surface coated with PVD can be re-done.

Balzers won't do a one off for you?
Something strange here. They do a lot of 1-2 piece work. A material they don't want to mix in a normal run?
Ante up enough money and you can get you own run but it is big money.
IonBond?
Bob

henrya · Oct 13, 2015

Butch,

Look up "Ion Bond". They do firearms regularly and have many colors. I think they only work through approved dealer/vendors who can prep the metal properly. This finish is big in the high-end action pistol world.

Ionbond *-*PVD, PACVD, PECVD, CVD, DLC, ADLC, thin-film, coatings, hard coatings, protective coatings, Tetrabond, Hardcut

PVD Coating?

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