Newbie help for selecting Lathe or Mill?

Hi, because I really like expensive hobbies and always seem to be inclined to modify or DIY parts and projects, I wanted some advice on lathes.
I can't find anywhere nearby that can thread or "flute" rifle barrels and most services charge more than the barrels cost, so I want to research doing it myself. What are some easy to use lathes or mills for a novice to try out? I'd generally be doing barrels under 20" long. In addition to fluting, I may want to change barrel profiles or contours (i.e. bull to Sporter, M4,etc).
Bonus points if you can give advice for threading and crowning resources? Same lathe or mill, etc?
I've got 8 years until retirement, so my hobby may become additional income later on.
Thanks

I can't really answer your question but this is a fun website to browse to get some ideas.

Metal Lathes - Grizzly.com

Texas Rob said:

Hi, because I really like expensive hobbies and always seem to be inclined to modify or DIY parts and projects, I wanted some advice on lathes.
I can't find anywhere nearby that can thread or "flute" rifle barrels and most services charge more than the barrels cost, so I want to research doing it myself. What are some easy to use lathes or mills for a novice to try out? I'd generally be doing barrels under 20" long. In addition to fluting, I may want to change barrel profiles or contours (i.e. bull to Sporter, M4,etc).
Bonus points if you can give advice for threading and crowning resources? Same lathe or mill, etc?
I've got 8 years until retirement, so my hobby may become additional income later on.
Thanks

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You want a post-retirement "hobby" that may become "additional income later on", I'd suggest you invest in grounds-keeping equipment, a good landscaper's trailer, and a reliable pickup-truck.

Then plan to HIRE younger guys to run em whilst you take your trustworthy grey-haired visage to the selling end of the lawn service.

"Gunsmithing" and/or parts production, has high licensing, reporting, and related admin costs and high risk of legal grief if gotten wrong. Higher every passing year.

"Too many" broad, sweeping, regulations meant to reduce places like North Korea earning coin for shiploads of military lethality to some bandit gang in South Bumf**k, third-world, East - that "just happen" to also side-swipe an honest professional gunsmith simply repairing an ignorant .22 to keep four-legged varmints from eating-up some farmer's wife's kitchen-garden.

Most post-retirement hobbies otherwise don't produce "additional income", anyway.

They produce additional expense. DAMHIKT.

Picking WHICH machine-tools get to EAT of that expense is the easy part. Cash dropped down one hole is much the same as any other. Gone, either way.

Being able to fund them? Not so easy.

More research if your "dream" is to be a pleasure rather than a burden.

At least one among our ranks makes his bones off "paint ball" guns. Others, tattoo equipment. Then there are drones. Robotics. Motorcycles. Automotive. Specialized tooling or metrology for OTHERS.

"Real" firearms are a tough road, obvious and not-so-obvious regulations only part of it.

Safety is a big issue, and amateurs can get it very badly wrong.

Thinking here about the problems in fluting barrels. You have a long unsupported steel shaft, perhaps tapered, how do you prevent chatter? I know some lathes come equipped with milling heads attached to the saddle at the rear, Emco Meier for instance, (emco meier lathes - Google Search)
but even if you elevated to tapered barrel at the tailstock end how would you support it underneath?
Obviously it's being done in many places so they aren't insolvable problems. Perhaps tapered beds that fit underneath?

thisguyjohn said:

I can't really answer your question but this is a fun website to browse to get some ideas.

Metal Lathes - Grizzly.com

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Please read the rules....The "green Bear" is off limits for discussion.

As for the OP, here is just what you need:
The Hobby-Machinist Forum

related admin costs and high risk of legal grief if gotten wrong.

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I make a few gun parts for sale and looked into getting my FFL, the packet of instructions mentioned first off buying extra insurance.

That was the end of that idea for me. The same thing happened when I thought of starting a local indoor shooting range, I went to a nearby town that has one and talked with the guy who built it, lead dust woes and gov't involvement sent startup costs through the roof, plus again, liability up the yazoo and of course, insurance costs.
Probably selling drugs on the street is less dangerous.

partsproduction said:

Thinking here about the problems in fluting barrels. You have a long unsupported steel shaft, perhaps tapered, how do you prevent chatter? I know some lathes come equipped with milling heads attached to the saddle at the rear, Emco Meier for instance, (emco meier lathes - Google Search)
but even if you elevated to tapered barrel at the tailstock end how would you support it underneath?
Obviously it's being done in many places so they aren't insolvable problems. Perhaps tapered beds that fit underneath?

Click to expand...

It may be an over-simplification but...

For a "production" Machinist, most work is 90% the proper machine-tool with appropriate tooling, 10% skill and ingenuity at solving NEW problems.

For a "proper" gunsmith, it is around 10% the machine-tools and tooling and 90% skill and ingenuity, even at solving OLD problems such as busted-off fasteners that have to be extracted, inletting a stock, bedding a barrel, affixing sights or 'scope mounts, altering a chamber, bolt, or bolt handle.

Brain work as much as - or more than - metal work, IOW. And then.. one has to be able to stay sane whilst dealing with CUSTOMERS, a serious pain-in-the ass in any case, and WORSE with firearms, between dreamers, fools, and outright nut-jobs.

"I'm going to do a bit of Gunsmithing" seems to be a fad that everyone thinks will bring them easy prestige and "free money".

That's Bullshit.

Firearms are hard work, "paperwork" alone.

Gunsmithing requires a certain mind-set and a great deal of patience and dedication. And it isn't easy to pay the bills.

I don't want to become one of these folks. I am happy to pay them for their investment in expertise, instead. I no longer even make my own SPRINGS - and I was bitchin' good at that particular subset...

Otherwise, I have ALWAYS been careful to own ONLY such firearms as can go fifty years with no need AT ALL of their services.

Which, of course, is part of the reason it is not so easy for them to pay their bills.

The wisest, wealthiest, and most reasonable of gun owners - easiest to deal with as customers - don't often need their services. We avoided trashy firearms from Day One. We have taken good care not to damage our good ones.

Which leaves the unreasonable, the hoarders of "junque", the dreamers, the nut-jobs, the slow-pay/no-pay, etc.!

Tough row to hoe.

A friend of mine Nick Hughes has a rifling machine in his Gunsmith Shop. He has his shop next to his BIG shop in Nowata Oklahoma. His company is J&S Machine and Valve . He makes his own big game rifles he uses when he hunts in Africa and does gunsmithing for folks all over the USA. He is also a Forum Member and I'll tell him about this thread and see what he says. :-) Rich

Gunsmithing does have a certain appeal, and someday may even be an in demand skill. That said, I know 2 gunsmiths, both are seriously struggling and usually flat broke, if it was not for the fact that their home/shop was paid for, they would go broke.

I admire their work, but do much better making industrial parts and repairs.

@digger Doug, thanks that's helpful!

I often wonder how gunsmiths make a living, and I think the ability to refuse jobs that are highly unlikely to pay would be a valuable trait, along with that would be the personality type that allows one to explain that he's better off selling a broken gun for parts or keeping it as is if not willing to pay (Make up inflated value here $___) for the work, in a way that makes the questioner glad he asked instead of ofended.

I bought a bunch of old guns that needed repair, and got most of them working, but the recurring thought I had was "How do gunsmiths make enough to live on?"
My small successes are counterbalanced by one single semiauto .22 rifle that I've been unable to return to original function! Hour after hour, and several times the original cost of the old rifle in parts.

Most repair machine shop owners have a finely developed sense of the mechanical, most production workers don't have to think the same way.

But the trades are closely related, historically and even today. Take a look at Mark Serbu and his .50 rifle, and many other of his designs, it's more than what we do that makes someone like him, it's an innate ability that few of us have that counts.
I think that gun repair doesn't involve radically new concepts as much as simple tinkering ability with certain skills, which are also somewhat rare.
To me gun design is the pinnacle of ability conglomeration, and maybe one in 10 million have it in an effective way.

Texas Rob said:

Hi, because I really like expensive hobbies and always seem to be inclined to modify or DIY parts and projects, I wanted some advice on lathes.
I can't find anywhere nearby that can thread or "flute" rifle barrels and most services charge more than the barrels cost, so I want to research doing it myself. What are some easy to use lathes or mills for a novice to try out? I'd generally be doing barrels under 20" long. In addition to fluting, I may want to change barrel profiles or contours (i.e. bull to Sporter, M4,etc).
Bonus points if you can give advice for threading and crowning resources? Same lathe or mill, etc?
I've got 8 years until retirement, so my hobby may become additional income later on.
Thanks

Click to expand...

I think you'll be wanting a milling machine with a 4th axis in order to cut the long lead flutes, or even straight flutes. That is not saying you won't need a lathe, as well. A lathe and a mill are like husband and wife.

You might, or might not make some money learning to gunsmith. I don't personally do any such work, nor do I do general automotive stuff. Those are all special fields that you get specially tooled up for in order to make yourself up to the task at a profitable level.

You might not make money, but I can see that you could make some return at least, that will help balance the ledger closer to zero than extremely negative

Gunsmithing has a HUGE appeal in my circles and is not the ordeal that some commentors are suggesting. All that is required is a type 01 FFL, ($200 and a $90 renewal every 3 years). The paperwork is so easy a 3rd grader can do it.
I currently and have been doing custom upgrades and assembly on semiautomatic pistols and the AR Rifle platform. It's not my day job and it doesn't make me a fortune, but I enjoy tinkering.
What I can't do is barrel work, hence my original post. Perhaps this is the wrong site and forum for my query. I appreciate the input from Doug and Richard.

thermite, your responses are mental diarrhea and I look forward to sharing them with my friends and other firearm enthusiasts.

All that is required is a type 01 FFL, ($200 and a $90 renewal every 3 years). The paperwork is so easy a 3rd grader can do it.

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Look behind the obvious for things that suck the joy out of it, like getting your insurance cancelled (Has happened to me twice) and angry customers on occasion, as there are some people who cannot be satisfied.
If you have the right attitude, having fun and helping people whether or not you get well paid, then you probably won't lose, and if you do get well paid that's a huge bonus.

partsproduction said:

Look behind the obvious for things that suck the joy out of it, like getting your insurance cancelled (Has happened to me twice) and angry customers on occasion, as there are some people who cannot be satisfied.
If you have the right attitude, having fun and helping people whether or not you get well paid, then you probably won't lose, and if you do get well paid that's a huge bonus.

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@partsproduction try affiliating with an established gun store, it can help with insurance costs and customer referrals.
I also only do work or builds that I want. Luckily the customer is responsible for choosing parts and upgrades before the work, so there's not much room for complaints. When there are, it's usually them wanting a different configuration, and not on my work.

Quit your day job, hang up your shingle, and I wish you the best of luck.

Texas Rob said:

Gunsmithing has a HUGE appeal in my circles and is not the ordeal that some commentors are suggesting. All that is required is a type 01 FFL, ($200 and a $90 renewal every 3 years). The paperwork is so easy a 3rd grader can do it.
I currently and have been doing custom upgrades and assembly on semiautomatic pistols and the AR Rifle platform. It's not my day job and it doesn't make me a fortune, but I enjoy tinkering.
What I can't do is barrel work, hence my original post. Perhaps this is the wrong site and forum for my query. I appreciate the input from Doug and Richard.

thermite, your responses are mental diarrhea and I look forward to sharing them with my friends and other firearm enthusiasts.

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Yah well. Do as the dalmation-servant suggests. Go for it! Time will tell.

Write to us when ITAR bites.

Then we'll know whose bowels and tail are in the healthier condition.

You like expensive hobbies ? Try watch collecting. That's as expensive an hobby as you'd like it to be and there's hardly any work involved at all.

Regards Tyrone.

Texas Rob said:

Hi, because I really like expensive hobbies and always seem to be inclined to modify or DIY parts and projects, I wanted some advice on lathes.
I can't find anywhere nearby that can thread or "flute" rifle barrels and most services charge more than the barrels cost, so I want to research doing it myself. What are some easy to use lathes or mills for a novice to try out? I'd generally be doing barrels under 20" long. In addition to fluting, I may want to change barrel profiles or contours (i.e. bull to Sporter, M4,etc).
Bonus points if you can give advice for threading and crowning resources? Same lathe or mill, etc?
I've got 8 years until retirement, so my hobby may become additional income later on.
Thanks

Click to expand...

I'd say Haas TRM for barrel rifling.

Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You like expensive hobbies ? Try watch collecting. That's as expensive an hobby as you'd like it to be and there's hardly any work involved at all.

Regards Tyrone.

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Or Watch making or refurbishing.

Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You like expensive hobbies ? Try watch collecting. That's as expensive an hobby as you'd like it to be and there's hardly any work involved at all.

Regards Tyrone.

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Servicing used ladies ... and trying to NOT "collect" them... is reported as waaay more costly.

As to the "work"? Depends. Not always what it is cracked up to be..