100 Year Old 15" South Bend

Kakashi · Sep 23, 2019

I had looked at this lathe a year ago. The owner acquired it 8 years ago from a Jesuit priest monastery. They had bought it new in 1919 and retired it from anything more than occasional use decades ago.

At the time I just didn't think I would have the room for it and could spend the money on things I needed. Out of the blue the owner called me this past Saturday to say come get it. We will work out a barter later.

...well, how can I pass that up.

Obviously I won't use the line drive shaft, but I'll have to do some research on how I can set up a motor. The motor given looks like it's from the 20's.

Kakashi · Sep 23, 2019

A couple more pictures

SLK001 · Sep 23, 2019

Wow! Looks like you got most of the change gears!

What's in the blue box?

johnoder · Sep 23, 2019

Obviously I won't use the line drive shaft

But you DO have to duplicate its speed - which on the 15" was like 200 RPM or less

16" on page 17 gives a hint from 1914

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1913_catalog/1913_catalog.pdf

Thanks to Mr. Wells for the scan

Kakashi · Sep 23, 2019

The Blue box....that was filled with gold. A large face Starrett indicator with a nice holder, boring bars & large Armstrong tool holders. Super nice live center. Another steady rest. An old box of flat belt lacing. Some kind of lacing tool. Wrenches...tooling. I'll take pictures later.

Kakashi · Sep 23, 2019

johnoder said:
But you DO have to duplicate its speed - which on the 15" was like 200 RPM or less

16" on page 17 gives a hint from 1914

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1913_catalog/1913_catalog.pdf

Thanks to Mr. Wells for the scan

Thanks Mr. Wells, indeed. Thanks for the tip. Makes me wonder what the spindle range is for this lathe. If I were to go VFD I would definitely what to know this. I'll add that to my growing bullet list of research topics.

johnoder · Sep 23, 2019

Makes me wonder what the spindle range is for this lathe

Divide big step on countershaft by small step on spindle cone.

Maybe 3.0 to one. 200 times 3.0 is 600 on the top end

You can work down from there

The pair of ratios on the back gears - multiplied - will give an idea of their overall ratio

Spindle nose....this lathe may be old enough to have the 8 pitch thread - not going to suit later 15" spindle tooling. By the thirties, the 15" had 2 1/4-6

johnoder · Sep 23, 2019

A little more on speeds

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1936_cat_95/1936_cat_95.pdf

Which is the 1936 full line catalog in Mr. Wells collection. On Pdf page 12, you will see the 15" of that time ran from 20 to 579 RPM with a 225 RPM counter shaft.

Kakashi · Sep 23, 2019

johnoder said:
A little more on speeds

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1936_cat_95/1936_cat_95.pdf

Which is the 1936 full line catalog in Mr. Wells collection. On Pdf page 12, you will see the 15" of that time ran from 20 to 579 RPM with a 225 RPM counter shaft.

Great! Thanks for that, johnoder

johnoder · Sep 24, 2019

Here is the result by '39 of what became of the 15"

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1939_Circular_No.14-6/Circular_No.14-6.pdf

If you look at page 2, you can see all eight speeds with a 274 RPM counter shaft.

Simply multiplying these speeds by 0.881 will give you the 225 RPM counter shaft speeds and by 0.73 for 200 RPM counter shaft

Also and incidentally - dividing the 657 top open belt speed by the 99 top back geared speed gives the back gear over all ratio = 6.64:1

Kakashi · Oct 1, 2019

I keep reading that both the headstock and tailstock are 3MT. This is true for my tailstock, but not for the spindle. It's too big for both a 3MT and 4MT and too small for a 5. I guess I'll have to get a collet chuck and cut my centers when I need them.

Although...why am I even considering using this thing?

johnoder · Oct 1, 2019

Kakashi said:
I keep reading that both the headstock and tailstock are 3MT. This is true for my tailstock, but not for the spindle. It's too big for both a 3MT and 4MT and too small for a 5. I guess I'll have to get a collet chuck and cut my centers when I need them.

Although...why am I even considering using this thing?

Because standard practice was to have a SLEEVE to adapt the 3MT center to the spindle taper

Kakashi · Oct 2, 2019

johnoder said:
Because standard practice was to have a SLEEVE to adapt the 3MT center to the spindle taper

Makes sense. On the positive, however, I can still see scrape marks on all the machined surfaces. I measure no wear in the bed ways whatsoever. Likewise the headstock bearings seem to be in nearly perfect condition.

johnoder · Oct 3, 2019

A very practical stand in for the "real" center in the head stock is stock chucked up and "pointed" using the compound rest - with a lathe dog resting against one of the chuck jaws - as required

A design upgrade for this always perfect "pointy thing" (assuming it is trued before use) is to have the "stock" shouldered so it cannot push back in jaws

tobnpr · Oct 3, 2019

Good luck with it...definitely a "cool factor".
Shop space is way to precious for me to display a museum piece with little practical value.
But hey, if I had unlimited space, I'd clean it up and proudly display it.

Kakashi · Oct 4, 2019

tobnpr said:
Good luck with it...definitely a "cool factor".
Shop space is way to precious for me to display a museum piece with little practical value.
But hey, if I had unlimited space, I'd clean it up and proudly display it.

If practical equates to knocking something out in a timely fashion, I suppose you're right. After the Herculean task of setting it up to run, however, I'm not sure what I wouldn't be able to turn with it that I could with my Axelson, albeit at a slower pace. Here I am trying to talk myself into it....

Anyone know of a railroad museum with a need?

DaveKamp · Oct 4, 2019

Greetings, Kakashi-San!

What you have there, is, from what I've found in my research, referred to as a South Bend model 34, 'Type O' 'screwcutting lathe', non-quick-change.

Serial number is located on the bed, right hand side, in the low of the ways, by the tailstock corner... please, for my amusement, note that serial number, so I can compare it's vintage to mine...

Several weeks ago, I was on assignment out in Pennsylvania, and an IDENTICAL dude jumped into the back of my service truck.

It was obviously NOT operated or maintained by Jesuits, as it was missing all the wonderful things that YOURS was 'still blessed' with. Mine has a lantern toolpost with a tool holder and tool, but no backplate, no chuck, no centers, no gears, no countershaft or lineshaft parts.

Mine is vintage 1917 I THINK... 13845.

I'm looking for parts, but your machine is impeccably complete. If you were going to fit it up with a drive and leave the lineshaft and countershaft unused, then I'd find a way to put yours back into service on my lathe... but if you're going to re-home it, the parts should all stay together with it...

Kakashi · Oct 5, 2019

Hi there, Dave. The serial number is 18270, so it looks like you have the older brother of mine. My shop isn't exactly large enough to start hanging line shafts and having flat belts wiz past my head, but I am very impressed with the condition of the lathe, so I've been looking for a silent chain drive on ebay and across the Craig-o-sphere.

Funny thing...I see this morning a guy with a 16" South Bend that is the same in every other regard. It's been well used over the past century, but he has that dang silent chain drive on his....and he's in town. We made a deal. $250 delivered. He even had the motor re-wound a few years back.

Needless to say, I'll have spare parts. Somebody did show interest in the clutch (?) pulleys. When I have things said and done I'll make a list of parts that wont be used.

One part for sure is an ancient Lincoln 3 phase motor (2hp).

Kakashi · Oct 7, 2019

Here are few pictures. My shop is starting to look like a retirement home for old machines.

M.B. Naegle · Oct 7, 2019

Kakashi said:
Hi there, Dave. The serial number is 18270, so it looks like you have the older brother of mine. My shop isn't exactly large enough to start hanging line shafts and having flat belts wiz past my head, but I am very impressed with the condition of the lathe, so I've been looking for a silent chain drive on ebay and across the Craig-o-sphere.

Funny thing...I see this morning a guy with a 16" South Bend that is the same in every other regard. It's been well used over the past century, but he has that dang silent chain drive on his....and he's in town. We made a deal. $250 delivered. He even had the motor re-wound a few years back.

Needless to say, I'll have spare parts. Somebody did show interest in the clutch (?) pulleys. When I have things said and done I'll make a list of parts that wont be used.

One part for sure is an ancient Lincoln 3 phase motor (2hp).

If you end up with left-over line shaft components, keep me in mind! I've got several projects that are in need of properly sized hangers, pulleys, clutch's, etc.

100 Year Old 15" South Bend

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Stainless

Diamond

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Hot Rolled

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Titanium

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Diamond

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