Serpentine Drive Belt vs. Leather

Chris Campbell · Mar 25, 2020

Hey All,
Now that I have my old lathe running, (Thank you All) I wanted to visit an old idea that someone once told me works quite well. I understand to use a continuous belt that I would need to do some disassembly to install, turning the wide serpentine belt inside out.
Has anyone tried this, is worth it? Sounded like a cool idea.

Just curious,
As always Thank You,

Chris Campbell

Phil in Montana · Mar 25, 2020

Works grate, You just need to find the right belt, I have done it on 4 machines over the years, the last was a 24 inch heavy shaper...Phil

iwananew10K · Mar 25, 2020

save yourself headaches.
get a synthetic clipped style belt from Baltimore Belting or Al Bino.
no fussing around....expensive, yes, but you only need one.

SLK001 · Mar 25, 2020

Chris Campbell said:
Hey All,
Now that I have my old lathe running, (Thank you All) I wanted to visit an old idea that someone once told me works quite well. I understand to use a continuous belt that I would need to do some disassembly to install, turning the wide serpentine belt inside out.
Has anyone tried this, is worth it? Sounded like a cool idea.

Just curious,
As always Thank You,

Chris Campbell

No disassembly required. They are lapped and glued. There have been threads on using a serpentine belt in the past here that you should first peruse.

GenePoole · Mar 26, 2020

I don't know about Baltimore Belting, but I've did the Al Bino on my 13 and it's been working great 3 years on now.

rgxtubNttLMvsMySG2U1TgEhbQYiwWLHNVepOIDDVODaTfq0_sW6oO73Pw07J1jBKRS4JTTNnyloPgAI45FE45WfuuFw9lXvBUnVs4CqaZ1K3tQsMqVYOaseSjaoKxSzqNtVwSCq2PEomyDGPkQl2Zrtw9JQuw2ovzwxS7c-V8sA3sJ97OCjfKH68xuwfXMozbaHPbcb48m1Hmz5SkCQgkJVMUKtJ-S09TRqemSkp4DScp4esK54b0LiTBmqcm4HXVUmiM5fYGU_3nIKDcsynGwjmivtg1rArTEMGmqpNRAUXskVVEAkW7avUgZvcTQxjNtLTE0DrGA0zB5gAIG3IB-AZL5SXpMHIIX0GoFABqM2_AK7osg5CeZKpi8H8R0tx5hHSiGWVhuxBEYNgpb9v9X9Ybgn5oyEuco8XzDCuTYv5_FIx0g9nJEnuV9UE-BizDca5ZF61V4bbWJs9diUE2w-e27Gd1nYTq7FIJHr77Ja8-AX3csk72dFyTIj4TR0-ta0SI6kEbpF0wcsBy8eRgVNMwFfTH93LwJtufpGx4NKhfCKYVcq0HKvMl1LYK-32eH7BfIBifR6Fj96AEOdRo3RdLObKxYTKG14yauMa2Qt5V2dxFcPki4toPEk9Kz1uYTC6O8aBrU0Xa-u3agAPu6b8zurzpDlY2nIpVR-jWr7Gj4ziPbV-YhOT8qhaJAUkxElASbFp45HXSkUpB_uWCZl5dfXbP_CjrfGwi43qSmvIHuLQ1xg7Tic=w1118-h838-no

tim9lives · Mar 26, 2020

I installed two serpentine belts on two of my SB lathes. They work great. Less noise and less slippage. But it’s a real pain in the butt getting the right belt. Many auto parts stores suck these days. My first jobs was at an auto parts store. Whenever someone came in with an oddball belts for a modified car with lets say something like a different alternator he put on his car..... we knew the catalog was useless. We had a belt gauge supplied by Gates, Dayco, or Goodyear...depending on the brand of our stock.
Stick the belt on the gauge and bingo.... you have the belt part number of said belt that the customer walks in with. No such gauge at the Autozone stores. Plus goofy part numbers which make it even harder to figure sizes of belts.
Like I said....the serpentine belts are great but I had a lot of trouble finding right sizes. And then you have to assemble and disassemble headstock spindle plus motor belt pulleys.
My latest acquisition was a 4-1/2’ SB from an old guy who passed at 100 y/o. It had an awesome steel bench he built which has drawers and big lower shelf. Anyway in one of the drawers was a new leather belt. When the old belt snapped, I didn’t want to disassemble anything nor did I want the hassle of finding the right belt. So I put that leather belt on. I stitched the belt as per instructions I found online. Also saw a great YouTube video. It’s been just fine.
Now....on one last note. Many, many serpentine belt South Bend owners say that they cut and glue the serpentine belt. Maybe that’s the answer. I can’t comment on that.

SLK001 · Mar 26, 2020

tim9lives said:
Now....on one last note. Many, many serpentine belt South Bend owners say that they cut and glue the serpentine belt. Maybe that’s the answer. I can’t comment on that.

For any SB lathe with an undercarriage drive, cutting and gluing the belt is the ONLY way it can be done. There is no way to install a continuous belt on those.

jim rozen · Mar 26, 2020

1) measure the length of the existing belt and the width.

2) visit car parts store and buy the belt that is a) longer than and b) just about as wide as, the old belt.
By longer, at least five inches longer. It can be a bit narrower if you want.

3) cut the belt. Mock it up and decide what length you want. Put the belt adjustment at mid-range. Mark the ends of the belt where the correct length is.

4) decide how much overlap you want. About 1 or 1.5 inches is good.

5) use a bench grinder to grind away half of each side of the lap region. Cords in the belt make a good stop indicator.

6) Thread the belt through and use the locktite superglue for plastics. Wear nitrile gloves. Don't glue your hand to the belt.

Allow to set overnight. Use much less tension than a leather belt requires. A LOT less.
Also the belt runs with the normal ridged friction surface towards the pulley. Don't run it inside out.

SLK001 · Mar 26, 2020

Jim has given some pretty good instructions.

I would add:

1) A belt sander also makes a good device for tapering the two cut areas. Make sure you taper the TOP on one side and the BOTTOM on the other!
2) Make yourself an alignment tool (wood works quite well), so that when you glue the sides together, they are "in-line". Make the tool about 8 inches long, so that both parts can be clamped to the tool outside the glue area. The tool is simply a long board with a wall, or fence on one side (a cross-section looks like an "L"). Also make a top piece about 4 inches long for final clamping. If you're worried about gluing the belt to the wood, line it with wax paper.
3) When you apply the glue, work fast as the glue is more or less instant grab.
4) Apply the top piece to the alignment tool and apply clamps overnight.

All this has to be done "in-situ", which makes everything more difficult. Careful planning and prep can make things go smoothly.

packardbill · Mar 26, 2020

Chris, I have several serpentine belts (good used). If you're interested, I'll send you one for the cost of shipping (USPS). Just let me know what width and length, and maybe I'll have something close. They work good on lathes,camelback drills, etc. Glue AND lace. PB

Chris Campbell · Mar 26, 2020

SLK001 said:
For any SB lathe with an undercarriage drive, cutting and gluing the belt is the ONLY way it can be done. There is no way to install a continuous belt on those.

You are correct. I took a look and sure enough the casting up top is a one piece affair, no way to use a continuous belt.

Thanks Again,
Chris

Yan Wo · Mar 26, 2020

SLK001 said:
For any SB lathe with an undercarriage drive, cutting and gluing the belt is the ONLY way it can be done. There is no way to install a continuous belt on those.

Not so. It is possible to cut out a section of the headstock so the belt can be passed around it.

Wait. I bet you mean not possible without destroying the lathe.

Never mind.

SLK001 · Mar 26, 2020

Yan Wo said:
Not so. It is possible to cut out a section of the headstock so the belt can be passed around it.

Wait. I bet you mean not possible without destroying the lathe.

Never mind.

Yeah, I was hoping that no one would suggest that solution! There ARE people who would try something like that!

jim rozen · Mar 26, 2020

My approach to this is to do a flat lap joint, unlike the tapered joints I use for leather belts.
This way the cords in the belt become the stop layer. Grind one side until the cords appear,
and then the other side, the same.

tim9lives · Mar 27, 2020

Yes. If you have the undercarriage motor then you need to cut and glue the belt. All my South Bend 9” lathes have the Countershaft behind the lathe. On those it’s really not too time consuming to disassemble and the slip the belt on. But, I am getting lazy as I get older. Once I watched this video, I stitched the leather belt. It is working just fine.
YouTube

Chris Campbell · Mar 27, 2020

tim9lives said:
Yes. If you have the undercarriage motor then you need to cut and glue the belt. All my South Bend 9” lathes have the Countershaft behind the lathe. On those it’s really not too time consuming to disassemble and the slip the belt on. But, I am getting lazy as I get older. Once I watched this video, I stitched the leather belt. It is working just fine.
YouTube

Watched the video actually pretty cool just wished he would have run it so we could watch. On that same page was a video of a Glue-Up belt. He did run it and it worked although I personally would have been a bit disappointed with the end result, that being a bump or wobble in the belts travel.
I changed the original belt many years ago with what is pictured here. I noticed the pin is wearing, or grooves are forming. It's not leather, it's some other material, synthetic?

Watching the second video I was embarrassed at the way my lathe looks. His South Bend looks better than new! So I went out and cleaned up the chips under the bed. LOL.

BobsSouthbend · Mar 27, 2020

Hi Chris
I have a h10 south bend have used leather with joiners no good so got me serpentine belt free at auto wreckers use cut it with a V cut it on a2x4 used plastic rap over pulley glue with 404 loctite

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

BobsSouthbend · Mar 27, 2020

Have used over10 years

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

bill1608 · Mar 27, 2020

Serpentine belts grip well as a flat belt and can be found on eBay cheap or locally. You can buy one too long and too wide and cut it down to size. But there is a big problem when you go to splice one using conventional methods. They are very strong belts, but all of the strength is in the radially wound cords. Everything else is just rubber that has no strength. So you can't staple them or glue them because the rubber has no strength. I use a staggered lacing method that does pull on the rubber, but there are enough laces to carry the load if you don't try to overdo it. I also use a metal strip that holds the lacing in place as the belt bends around the pulleys. The strip keeps the lacing in the belt grooves so it does not contact the pulleys. The strip also prevents the lacing from "bridging" when the splice is bent and it stabilizes and aligns the joint. With my method, you have to periodically re-lace the belt, but for me it is worth the trouble. If I was using the lathe more hours or in a business, my method would be too time consuming. I use waxed lacing tape, a product used for lacing wiring harnesses. I tie each knot 4 times, alternating direction like a square knot. I made the metal strip from a piece of band saw blade. Make sure you debur the holes so they don't wear the lacing.

SLK001 · Mar 27, 2020

bill1608 said:
So you can't staple them or glue them because the rubber has no strength.

The best way to prepare a serpentine belt for gluing is to sand the top of one end down to the cords, then sand the bottom of the other end down to the cords. The belt glue (super glue) bonds the belts together quite well using this method.

Serpentine Drive Belt vs. Leather

Plastic

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Cast Iron

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Cast Iron

Plastic

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Plastic

Stainless

Similar threads