9"/10K Spindle thrust ball bearing source

Onebadengine · Jan 30, 2015

Hello,

I have the headstock apart on my 10k lathe to swap out a somewhat noisy thrust bearing. This is not the fiber take up washer or the upgraded needle roller bearing that is substituted for the fiber washer. I am looking for the actual spindle thrust ball bearing. I have seen some used ones floating around here and there but kind of wanted to replace it with a new bearing, not a 20-50yr old one. Does anybody have a source to the bearing that I am looking for?

Any information would be greatly appreciated....

tgolden · Jan 31, 2015

Are talking about SBL part no. PT207NK1? If so, from what I've read, there isn't a direct new replacement. You may be able to find an appropriate match by contacting a bearing manufacturer with precise dimensions and they may be able to provide a suitable substitute.

Also, the noise may not be from the thrust bearing. It could be a number of things you need to check. See the link below:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/south-bend-10-k-1967-head-knock-190991/

Onebadengine · Feb 2, 2015

Tgolden,

Yes I am referring to part no. PT207NK1.

Thanks for the link, it was interesting to read. I don't think that my cone pulley is the cause of the noise. Mine doesn't really have a knock to it and its hard to describe the noise it is making. I just know that something doesn't sound right and if I add a little oil to the thrust bearing the sound changes for a minute then comes back.

I have the headstock apart, the bearings and spindle look good. I measured the spindle to bearing clearance at .0008"-.001" before disassembly. The inside bore of my v-belt cone pulley looks good with no noticeable marks or galling. Not sure what the cone pulley to spindle clearance is suppose to be? But, I have about .0015"-.002" clearance.

I am really meticulous about proper lubrication on my lathe and relieved to see that everything on the headstock and spindle is in fine order..... Pretty sure that I need a replacement thrust bearing (PT207NK1) or something equivalent. I found a old thread where someone had crossed the bearing over to something close but the link no longer works.

Anybody found a suitable cross? Please let me know

iwananew10K · Feb 2, 2015

Your clearances are fine.

Have you checked with Ted for the thrust bearing?

tgolden · Feb 2, 2015

If you can't get a thrust bearing from Ted, you should contact Timken. They have a Machine Tool Bearing Catalog and likely their tech support could spec an appropriate substitute if you specify the dimensions and application.

Catalogs

I think that SBL thrust bearing is a thrust ball bearing. I think it's the best type bearing for that load application. I would think that Timken would have a suitable replacement.

Regards

PS

SKF might have a good replacement thrust ball bearing.

Check out their single direction thrust ball bearings. They have similar construction to the thrust bearing SBL used.

http://www.skf.com/group/products/b...ball-bearings/thrust-ball-bearings/index.html

There is a guy on eBay selling a new replacement thrust ball bearing. The auction description doesn't indicate the make or part number, but indicates it's almost identical to the original SLB thrust ball bearing with the exception of the outside diameter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-...770?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259f195252

Although, I would want the bearing's information before I would buy, because I'd check the manufacturer's website to confirm the specs are adequate for the application.

freeclimbmtb · Feb 3, 2015

As a shot in the dark you can try and see if McMaster has one that will fit. Search "High-Performance Steel Thrust Ball Bearing"

They have a selection that upon quick glance might work...but they are dimensioned in metric. Working from memory from when I had mine apart, a 25mm ID, 45mm OD, 14mm thick bearing might be close...

But as others have said, Timken (like boston gear) could probably get you one off the shelf with a simple phone call.

bisley45 · Feb 3, 2015

There is a seller on ebay that has some new. South Bend 9" Lathe Spindle Bearings and End Play Bearing Set | eBay

tgolden · Feb 3, 2015

bisley45 said:
There is a seller on ebay that has some new. South Bend 9" Lathe Spindle Bearings and End Play Bearing Set | eBay

I would avoid this seller, because he's non-responsive to questions. He refuses to identify the make and part number of the thrust ball bearing. He claims they're USA made, but apparently they're completely unmarked. He alleges that he gets them through his brother-in-law who works in maintenance. Unmarked bearings are usually an indication of Asian origin.

Any of the major bearing distributors should be able to cross the appropriate thrust ball bearing from a reputable USA maker.

Avoid the clowns on eBay that refuse to give a complete and accurate description.

Regards

Onebadengine · Feb 4, 2015

I also contacted the ebay seller, who told me the same story as Tgolden stated. He wouldn't identify the bearing manufacture or the part number. He claimed that his brother-in-law purchased them for him but he just lost his wife and he didn't wont to bother him for the information. I told him that I was sorry for his lose and thanked him for taking the time to reply.... I refuse to buy a bearing from an unknown manufacture

Does anybody have the exact dimensions of the bearing? I am at work now and forgot the piece of paper with the dimensions on it.

Thanks to all that have posted info and I will let everyone know where and what the part number is when I find a suitable cross

freeclimbmtb · Feb 4, 2015

The image on that add shows the needle thrust bearing washers in bags with part numbers and made in USA on them and one clearly has a McMaster item sticker on it. But as others have stated the thrust ball bearing (the part you actually want) is out of packaging with no hint as to brand/origin. I would probably keep looking as well..

(and for reference, those bagged, labeled washers, 1-3/8x2-1/16x0.032" are $1.57 from McMaster, the matching bearing $4.08, part numbers 5909K39 and 5909K53 respectively. So that's $7.22 for the complete needle bearing direct...I have a hard time believing his other roller bearing is worth $58...)

tgolden · Feb 4, 2015

To get a good cross, you'll need to call out all the original thrust ball bearings specs; number of balls, complete dimensions, and application details. There will likely be several candidates from the various big name bearing manufacturers. So, it would be good to know the best crosses from each.

tgolden · Feb 4, 2015

freeclimbmtb said:
The image on that add shows the needle thrust bearing washers in bags with part numbers and made in USA on them and one clearly has a McMaster item sticker on it. But as others have stated the thrust ball bearing (the part you actually want) is out of packaging with no hint as to brand/origin. I would probably keep looking as well..

(and for reference, those bagged, labeled washers, 1-3/8x2-1/16x0.032" are $1.57 from McMaster, the matching bearing $4.08, part numbers 5909K39 and 5909K53 respectively. So that's $7.22 for the complete needle bearing direct...I have a hard time believing his other roller bearing is worth $58...)

That seller currently has three bearing packages for sale on eBay;

1. Thrust needle bearing replacement for fiber washer: BIN $21.00 plus $2.50 S&H

2. Thrust ball bearing replacement for SBL Thrust Ball Bearing: Opening bid of $30.00 or BIN for $45.00 plus $5.95 S&H

3. Combo of numbers 1 & 2 above for BIN price of $65.00 plus $5.95 S&H

It's been well discussed on the forum that McMaster is a source for the thrust needle bearing replacement for the original SBL fiber washer. Anyone needing that bearing would be better served to cut out the middle man and buy direct from McMaster.

The same applies for the Thrust Ball Bearing once the correct cross or crosses are identified.

Regards

bisley45 · Feb 4, 2015

tgolden said:
I would avoid this seller, because he's non-responsive to questions. He refuses to identify the make and part number of the thrust ball bearing. He claims they're USA made, but apparently they're completely unmarked. He alleges that he gets them through his brother-in-law who works in maintenance. Unmarked bearings are usually an indication of Asian origin.

Any of the major bearing distributors should be able to cross the appropriate thrust ball bearing from a reputable USA maker.

Avoid the clowns on eBay that refuse to give a complete and accurate description.

Regards

Thanks for the heads up

tgolden · Feb 4, 2015

The thrust needle bearings and thrust ball bearings supplied by McMaster are made by Schaeffler North America under the brands of ********* and INA. Per McMaster, the Schaeffler thrust needle bearings are made in the USA and the thrust ball bearings are made in Mexico. Schaeffler has a good selection of thrust ball bearings they call axial deep groove ball bearings in a wide variety of dimensions and rpm and loading specs. To make the best selection, you'll need to spec the max rpm and loading.

Schaeffler is just one of the quality bearing manufacturers that can provide a cross for the SBL 9/10K spindle thrust ball bearings.

Regards

tgolden · Feb 4, 2015

The measureable dimensions without removing the spindle on my 10K are: 55.6mm (2.189") OD & 12.54mm (0.494") T. Or, about 2-3/16" OD & 1/2" T.

Due to the position on the spindle, the bearing thickness will likely narrow the field, because any bearing thicker than 1/2" will likely be too tight. I estimate the spindle OD at the thrust bearing location to be about 35mm or 1-3/8".

The SBL thrust ball bearing is separable with a metal bearing cage. If you have your spindle out measure the spindle thickness at the thrust ball bearing location and the thickness at the belt pulley location, and the bearing dimensions to confirm. I don't think Boston Gear or McMaster has a thrust ball bearing listed that complies with the ID and thickness to fit properly.

From the bearing specs I've observed, you'll need the two spindle ODs to spec a proper replacement.

Based on my measurements and assumptions, I think the Schaeffler axial deep groove ball bearings 51107 looks to be a good cross.

http://medias.schaeffler.de/medias/en!hp.ec.br.pr/511*51107

If you do a Google for "51107 bearing" several results pop-up. Amazon has one listed by VXB on the link below or only $11.69 with free shipping on orders over $35.00. The Amazon page doesn't indicate the origin.

http://www.amazon.com/51107-Thrust-Bearing-35x52x12-Bearings/dp/B002BBOHMI

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/ThrustBallBearings/Kit7858

The VXB website lists the bearing for $7.77. If this bearing is USA made, I'll wager the eBay seller discussed above is selling that bearing for $36.00 minimum or $51.00 with BIN. It should be no surprise why he doesn't want to indicate the manufacturer.

One by SKF as well for $27.82 with free shipping on orders over $35.00.

http://www.amazon.com/SKF-Direction-Bearing-Precision-Capacity/dp/B007VHGOVO

http://www.skf.com/us/products/bear...single-direction/index.html?prodid=1610011107

I think the SKF bearing is probably the better quality. I'd be surprised if the SKF bearing's origin is Asia. The VXB bearing wouldn't surprise me if it was Asia, but it may not be. You get what you pay for.

If your spindle and bearing measurements confirm my measurements and assumptions, I think the SKF 51107 listed on Amazon would be a good replacement.

Regards

PS - Here's one by NSK, NSK 51107, for $34.82 on Amazon with free shipping on orders over $35.00.

http://www.amazon.com/NSK-Bearing-G..._indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0QCZTH0ZRDKZ86AAGSF5

There's one on eBay for about $31.00 with shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NSK-51107-Thrust-Bearing-Single-Row-Thrust-Bearing-/151050376828

Here's one by *********, ********* 51107, for $32.45 on Amazon with free shipping on orders over $35.00.

http://www.amazon.com/*********-Gro...23118536&sr=8-9&keywords=51107+Thrust+Bearing

I think the SKF, ********* and NSK bearings are excellent quality. These manufacturers are located in Sweden, Germany and Japan respectively. I don't know about the VXB bearing. You should call to determine their origin.

Amazon lists several more. Do a search on Amazon for "51107 bearing." I think the 51107 series bearings are the proper size, but that needs to be confirmed.

If 12mm (0.4724") thickness is too narrow, you could order one of the 0.032" thickness thrust washers from McMaster to serve as a spacer if the axial play is excessive. The 12mm thickness bearings would be about 0.020" under thickness without the McMaster 0.032" thrust washer and about 0.010" over with it based on my measurement above for the existing thrust ball bearing.

UPDATE: I called VXB and their Thrust Ball Bearing 51107 is manufactured in China.

thenrie · Nov 3, 2015

Replacement headstock thrust bearings for SB9

tgolden said:
The measureable dimensions without removing the spindle on my 10K are: 55.6mm (2.189") OD & 12.54mm (0.494") T. Or, about 2-3/16" OD & 1/2" T.

Due to the position on the spindle, the bearing thickness will likely narrow the field, because any bearing thicker than 1/2" will likely be too tight. I estimate the spindle OD at the thrust bearing location to be about 35mm or 1-3/8".

The SBL thrust ball bearing is separable with a metal bearing cage. If you have your spindle out measure the spindle thickness at the thrust ball bearing location and the thickness at the belt pulley location, and the bearing dimensions to confirm. I don't think Boston Gear or McMaster has a thrust ball bearing listed that complies with the ID and thickness to fit properly.

From the bearing specs I've observed, you'll need the two spindle ODs to spec a proper replacement.

Based on my measurements and assumptions, I think the Schaeffler axial deep groove ball bearings 51107 looks to be a good cross.

Axial deep groove ball bearings - 51107

If you do a Google for "51107 bearing" several results pop-up. Amazon has one listed by VXB on the link below or only $11.69 with free shipping on orders over $35.00. The Amazon page doesn't indicate the origin.

51107 Thrust Bearing 35x52x12 Thrust Bearings: Thrust Ball Bearings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

51107 Thrust Bearing 35x52x12 ThrustBallBearings

The VXB website lists the bearing for $7.77. If this bearing is USA made, I'll wager the eBay seller discussed above is selling that bearing for $36.00 minimum or $51.00 with BIN. It should be no surprise why he doesn't want to indicate the manufacturer.

One by SKF as well for $27.82 with free shipping on orders over $35.00.

SKF 51107 Single Direction Thrust Bearing, 3 Piece, Grooved Race, 90° Contact Angle, ABEC 1 Precision, Open, Steel Cage, 35mm Bore, 53mm OD, 12mm Width, 8430lbf Static Load Capacity, 3910lbf Dynamic Load Capacity: Thrust Ball Bearings: Amazon.com: I

http://www.skf.com/us/products/bear...single-direction/index.html?prodid=1610011107

I think the SKF bearing is probably the better quality. I'd be surprised if the SKF bearing's origin is Asia. The VXB bearing wouldn't surprise me if it was Asia, but it may not be. You get what you pay for.

If your spindle and bearing measurements confirm my measurements and assumptions, I think the SKF 51107 listed on Amazon would be a good replacement.

Regards

PS - Here's one by NSK, NSK 51107, for $34.82 on Amazon with free shipping on orders over $35.00.

http://www.amazon.com/NSK-Bearing-G..._indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0QCZTH0ZRDKZ86AAGSF5

There's one on eBay for about $31.00 with shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NSK-51107-Thrust-Bearing-Single-Row-Thrust-Bearing-/151050376828

Here's one by *********, ********* 51107, for $32.45 on Amazon with free shipping on orders over $35.00.

http://www.amazon.com/*********-Gro...23118536&sr=8-9&keywords=51107+Thrust+Bearing

I think the SKF, ********* and NSK bearings are excellent quality. These manufacturers are located in Sweden, Germany and Japan respectively. I don't know about the VXB bearing. You should call to determine their origin.

Amazon lists several more. Do a search on Amazon for "51107 bearing." I think the 51107 series bearings are the proper size, but that needs to be confirmed.

If 12mm (0.4724") thickness is too narrow, you could order one of the 0.032" thickness thrust washers from McMaster to serve as a spacer if the axial play is excessive. The 12mm thickness bearings would be about 0.020" under thickness without the McMaster 0.032" thrust washer and about 0.010" over with it based on my measurement above for the existing thrust ball bearing.

UPDATE: I called VXB and their Thrust Ball Bearing 51107 is manufactured in China.

I hate to resurrect an old thread, but I'm sure there are a few others out there looking for this info as well.

Has anyone used any of the above referenced replacement thrust bearings? Any reports as to whether they do the job? Recommendations?

tgolden · Nov 3, 2015

thenrie said:
I hate to resurrect an old thread, but I'm sure there are a few others out there looking for this info as well.

Has anyone used any of the above referenced replacement thrust bearings? Any reports as to whether they do the job? Recommendations?

Do you have your spindle out? If so, we need some measurements to confirm the specs.

Regards

comstockfriend · Nov 4, 2015

My 9A spindle is 1.374 OD, so you are looking for a nominal 1.375+ ID on the bearing. This locates between the inside face of the rear of the headstock and the shoulder on the spindle that carries the cone pulley. Don't have access at the moment to mike the bearing stack thickness...

John

tgolden · Nov 4, 2015

comstockfriend said:
My 9A spindle is 1.374 OD, so you are looking for a nominal 1.375+ ID on the bearing. This locates between the inside face of the rear of the headstock and the shoulder on the spindle that carries the cone pulley. Don't have access at the moment to mike the bearing stack thickness...

John

The SKF, ********* and NSK bearings listed above should be good. Your spindle diameter at the thrust bearing location is 1.374" or 34.90 mm. The bearings have a 35 mm ID or bore.

1. ********* 51107 Grooved Race Thrust Bearing, Single Row, Open, 90° Contact Angle, Steel Cage, Metric, 35mm ID, 53mm OD, 12mm Width. I would expect that this bearing is made in Germany.

********* 51107 Grooved Race Thrust Bearing, Single Row, Open, 90Â° Contact Angle, Steel Cage, Metric, 35mm ID, 53mm OD, 12mm Width: Thrust Ball Bearings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

2. SKF 51107 Single Direction Thrust Bearing, 3 Piece, Grooved Race, 90° Contact Angle, ABEC 1 Precision, Open, Steel Cage, 35mm Bore, 53mm OD, 12mm Width, 8430lbf Static Load Capacity, 3910lbf Dynamic Load Capacity

SKF 51107 Single Direction Thrust Bearing, 3 Piece, Grooved Race, 90Â° Contact Angle, ABEC 1 Precision, Open, Steel Cage, 35mm Bore, 53mm OD, 12mm Width, 8430lbf Static Load Capacity, 3910lbf Dynamic Load Capacity: Thrust Ball Bearings: Amazon.com: I

3. NSK 51107 Thrust Bearing, Single Row, 3 Piece, Grooved Race, Pressed Steel Cage, Metric, 35mm Bore, 52mm OD, 12mm Width, 4000rpm Maximum Rotational Speed, 49500N Static Load Capacity, 22100N Dynamic Load Capacity

NSK 51107 Thrust Bearing, Single Row, 3 Piece, Grooved Race, Pressed Steel Cage, Metric, 35mm Bore, 52mm OD, 12mm Width, 4000rpm Maximum Rotational Speed, 49500N Static Load Capacity, 22100N Dynamic Load Capacity: Thrust Ball Bearings: Amazon.com: In

thenrie · Nov 4, 2015

Excellent! Thanks much! I'm just getting ready to break into my '47 9A refurb.

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