I have been using the back gears a bit and they are pretty noisy. I don't think they are bad but do any of you put grease on those gear teeth. I want to try that but I'm not sure what to use. Of course I understand this would be a very small amount of grease because of the pulleys and the belt in there. I can live with the noise, but wanted to ask before I do something I will regret.
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Back Gear Noise
- Thread starter Kevin T
- Start date
- Replies 21
- Views 3,461
texasgeartrain
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Location
- Houston, TX
I would say I don't actively grease those gears. But I also don't use them often. I have a two speed motor, so in low I can run slower speeds. Not as low as all the back gears, but fairly slow. In low I lose some HP from electric motor though.
I do believe I put a thin amount of grease on. Mostly just to keep gears with a slight glazed look, as rust preventative. Not enough to sling all around though.
Geartrain at end of headstock I grease a little more though. That slings a little bit inside gear cover.
Another thought, what do you use for lube inside cone pulley ?
I ask because I just ran a test run of all lathe speeds last week. In it I ran the back gears. During that, my first couple tests on back gears were more noisy. I had packed my cone pulley with grease. As I had not run back gears for a while, the initial test had to churn and loosen that up. I could smell the particular aroma of that grease, and gained a little RPM as the spindle worked a little. Anyway, the gears got a little quieter as that loosened up.
I have a head stock I'll be tearing down soon, and considering if I should change what lube I use for that cone pulley. I remembered a topic here recently, I couldn't remember what grease, SLK001 mentioned it was teflon based grease that was originally recommended, but no longer available.
Running that around in my head, I was thinking a convo here several years back. I could of swore someone said teflon grease was available in small quantities for bicycles. Searching it up, I found some on amazon and bought it to have a look.
Well in looking at and rubbing on my fingers, it reminds me of Lubriplate. It's whitish in color, and has that real thin grease feel. The lubriplate I see these days:
As a kid, or young person, it used to come in like a quart size metal paint can where the logo looked like this:
Without writing a book, I'm just not a huge fan of lubriplate. Mostly because it seems like it dries out if left for years in a particular component built with it.
Looking at the compositions, I don't think the teflon grease is the same as lubriplate, but it sure looks and feels the same. Not trying to drag this too far off topic, just thinking drag on cone pulley could contribute to that gear noise. I'm considering options on lube for that myself.
I do believe I put a thin amount of grease on. Mostly just to keep gears with a slight glazed look, as rust preventative. Not enough to sling all around though.
Geartrain at end of headstock I grease a little more though. That slings a little bit inside gear cover.
Another thought, what do you use for lube inside cone pulley ?
I ask because I just ran a test run of all lathe speeds last week. In it I ran the back gears. During that, my first couple tests on back gears were more noisy. I had packed my cone pulley with grease. As I had not run back gears for a while, the initial test had to churn and loosen that up. I could smell the particular aroma of that grease, and gained a little RPM as the spindle worked a little. Anyway, the gears got a little quieter as that loosened up.
I have a head stock I'll be tearing down soon, and considering if I should change what lube I use for that cone pulley. I remembered a topic here recently, I couldn't remember what grease, SLK001 mentioned it was teflon based grease that was originally recommended, but no longer available.
Running that around in my head, I was thinking a convo here several years back. I could of swore someone said teflon grease was available in small quantities for bicycles. Searching it up, I found some on amazon and bought it to have a look.
Well in looking at and rubbing on my fingers, it reminds me of Lubriplate. It's whitish in color, and has that real thin grease feel. The lubriplate I see these days:
As a kid, or young person, it used to come in like a quart size metal paint can where the logo looked like this:
Without writing a book, I'm just not a huge fan of lubriplate. Mostly because it seems like it dries out if left for years in a particular component built with it.
Looking at the compositions, I don't think the teflon grease is the same as lubriplate, but it sure looks and feels the same. Not trying to drag this too far off topic, just thinking drag on cone pulley could contribute to that gear noise. I'm considering options on lube for that myself.
moonlight machine
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Location
- marysville ohio
No rocket science here, Just get a can of aerosol open gear lubricant. Sprays on, the light components evaporate and the lube remains, it is sticky as hell so it does not fly off. Quiets the infamous SB gear rattle. McMaster Carr sells it.
Dobermann
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2014
- Location
- North Carolina
I NEVER use grease anywhere on any of my South Bend lathes. Grease has a tendency to pick up and hold dust, dirt, and metal chips -- not good for moving parts.
As a breed, I think the 10L lathe just has a noisy gear train because it runs the tumbler gears pretty fast. If you look at the diameter of the drive gear on the end of the 10L spindle you can see that it's quite larger as compared to the diameter of the drive gear on the end of a 9 Workshop or 9 Jr lathe. The gear train on both of my 9" lathes is virtually silent.
The gear train noise can be annoying but I don't think it hurts anything. Putting "sticky stuff" on the gears to make them quiet is probably not a good solution in the long run.
As a breed, I think the 10L lathe just has a noisy gear train because it runs the tumbler gears pretty fast. If you look at the diameter of the drive gear on the end of the 10L spindle you can see that it's quite larger as compared to the diameter of the drive gear on the end of a 9 Workshop or 9 Jr lathe. The gear train on both of my 9" lathes is virtually silent.
The gear train noise can be annoying but I don't think it hurts anything. Putting "sticky stuff" on the gears to make them quiet is probably not a good solution in the long run.
DMF_TomB
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2008
- Location
- Rochester, NY, USA
i have used spray on grease made for chains and gears. its sticky but still gets some to come off at higher speeds
.
3 spray cans I usually have in shop
.
1) spray on grease
2) M1 spray on oil
3) non residue electrical contact cleaner ( basically a spray on solvent that drips and dries relatively fast)
.
3 spray cans I usually have in shop
.
1) spray on grease
2) M1 spray on oil
3) non residue electrical contact cleaner ( basically a spray on solvent that drips and dries relatively fast)
tommy1010
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Location
- northeastern Pa, USA
If those gears are noisy they need adjusting. If they are engaged too far they will be noisy. I have run back gears after repair and found they are quiet if they are adjusted properly without any lubricant. That little screw on the bottom left looking from the front will help to adjust them just fine. You can see if this helps buy just taking a little pressure off the back gear by pushing the lever to disengage ever so slightly. If it quiets up set that screw to stop the engagement right there. Take the guards off and check for dirt and swarf that may have accumulated over the years. Clean them up if need be. No grease. I have seen everything from STP to chainsaw bar lube used to lubricate gears. You can choose from a list of sticky oils a mile long. Did I say NO GREASE?? Good luck.
SLK001
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Location
- Coral Springs, FL USA
DON'T USE GREASE! OVER AND OUT! Grease will HOLD on to any chip that flies into its grasp and possibly DAMAGE both gears. South Bend also stated to NEVER USE GREASE ON THE GEARING! Just use the TYPE C oil to give the gears a coating and be done with it.
If you say, "But it is covered and no chips can get to it...", just look at all the nooks and crannies around your lathe - you'll find swarf EVERYWHERE!
SLK001
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Location
- Coral Springs, FL USA
That stuff goes INSIDE the gears to lubricate the BEARINGS! DO NOT USE THIS STUFF ON YOUR GEAR FACES! For one thing, it's too rare - it's not made any more and there isn't a modern equivalent to it. For another, it's not a gear lube.
Thanks for the tip on gear engagement. I will try that. Part of the trouble might be that I am not sure what noise is too much noise. I got into it and took out some axial play from the assembly and it sounds a bit better too.
Thanks for this thread!
My SB9 arrived with liberal grease and oil on all the gears. I cleaned them and put more on, thinking that must be right.
But it makes all kinds of sense that grease would pick up chips and wear or break the gears. Off to clean them again. And then adjust that setscrew.
My SB9 arrived with liberal grease and oil on all the gears. I cleaned them and put more on, thinking that must be right.
But it makes all kinds of sense that grease would pick up chips and wear or break the gears. Off to clean them again. And then adjust that setscrew.
Rudd
Stainless
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
- Location
- savannah, jaw-ja
I adjust gears by running a sheet of office paper into the mesh, then setting them against that paper. When the paper comes out, you have a leetle bit of clearance.
Standard copy paper tends to be about .003 to .004 thick. Usually closer to the .003 to .0035.
Standard copy paper tends to be about .003 to .004 thick. Usually closer to the .003 to .0035.
I'll try this next time I work on that part of the machine but isn't the rotating position of the eccentric shaft determined by the indents in the collars? It doesn't seem like a simple task to relocate the clocking. What am I missing here? I am wary of drilling a new indent for the locking screws that are being mentioned.
iwananew10K
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2010
- Location
- moscow,ohio
the rotation of the back gear eccentric(and thusly gear mesh) is controlled by the screw on the rear of the headstock.
moonlight machine
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Location
- marysville ohio
I have been using spray on open gear lube on my 16" south bend since I got it in 1973. So they have been running in grease for 46 years. They are in great shape, nothing tragic has happened. So in conclusion I say you are F O S!
SLK001
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Location
- Coral Springs, FL USA
I guess that that makes the old South Bend Lathe Company F O S also.
moonlight machine
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Location
- marysville ohio
Whatever blows your dress up.
DMF_TomB
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2008
- Location
- Rochester, NY, USA
.
spray on grease for chains and gears has always reduced noise in seconds for me for like 5 decades, obviously keep gear cover closed if nothing else than some grease and oil sprays off moving gears and its messy if gear covers not covering gears.
.
like spray on oil and spray on solvent (non residue electrical contact cleaner) will clean gears (and 10x more spray coming off moving gears)
.
running gears dry might seem cleaner but you basically wearing out gears faster cause no lubricant. not that I would worry much about it. 99% of time gears get damaged more on overload like trying to take chuck off or tapping a big thread like over 1" dia tap turning with big wrench
.
gear noise is just annoying and a 1 second spray of grease quites it in seconds but only lasts maybe a hour. not like it will quite gears for years, running a lathe all day requires more than 1 quick spray of grease if you want quieter gears
k3vyl
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2008
- Location
- newark DE USA
Earlier SBL books recommended oil C for the gears and for the cone bearing.Oil C is now known as ISO 100 or SAE 30 machine oil ,Turbine oil, or DTE oil (dynamo turbine and engine oil)The last is an old name.This stuff will prevent surface rust on the gears.Surface rust is to be avoided. In the cone pulley it will provide the necessary lubrication.Roy Dean didn't get in there until people got too lazy to oil that bearing when they used the back gears.From this thread you can see that the snake oil salesmen are still out there and always will be.
I do have a slight amount of surface rust on the sides of the gears but the teeth look good. So considering rust prevention it would seem that "dry" is a relative term. I may need to find a middle ground. I adjusted the gears out a bit and she got quieter but I think there is more noise than there should be.
Since we are talking back gears I have a question. On a cut in backgear, is it OK to end the cut by disengaging the backgear lever? It seems like the fastest way to end the cut. It's a reach but I was curious.