Carriage stops- Types and how used?

Latheman Ted posted some stops for sale along with bed brackets for using the stops with collets. Try as I may, I just cannot visualize how these stop brackets are put into use. I didn't want to hijack his thread, so here it is. How do the bed brackets work in actual use? My google-fu has not turned up any light on this one.

And, as long as I am asking, what other types of carriage stops are there and how are they used? I have a micrometer stop, I get how that works. I have seen the solid stop. That makes sense also. But there are others out there, both factory and shop made. Some are simple, some look like clockwork. What have you got and how is it put to use?

Micrometer stops are dead useful. If you don't use a dro, even more so. But even with a dro, I'd want a micrometer stop.

Its use is for setting a dead stop for cutting longitudinal cuts. Put it on chuck side of apron carriage. You will nearly always cut longitudinal with carriage moving towards chuck.

If you are cutting a step on a shaft, multiple passes longitudunal, even using a dial indicator, it hard to stop directly on the mark on each pass. With a micrometer stop, you allow the carriage to bump on the micrometer stop on each pass, thus every pass the cut will finish dead on as the first pass.

A couple of tricks though. You cant leave apron in gear and clutched in as you hit micrometer stop, or you will crash the machine. You either need to disengage clutch and by hand roll carriage till you bump into the stop. Or depending if you have a lever or star handle clutch, try to lightly clutch into it. Or my favorite, leave clutch engaged, but pull spring loaded handle out so that pin is hovering over the hole for long feed engagement, as carriage bumps micrometer stop, the handle is forced to the neutral position. I'd practice that with no work chucked up, and NOT hitting micrometer stop before hand though, get comfortable with it.

Anyway, in most cases I don't adjust the fine tuning of micrometer stop. I set position of the whole stop with machine un-powered, and during the work set up. Just crack the bed clamp portion loose and slide along bed where you want it, and lock it down.

Mike DeHart said:

Latheman Ted posted some stops for sale along with bed brackets for using the stops with collets. Try as I may, I just cannot visualize how these stop brackets are put into use. I didn't want to hijack his thread, so here it is. How do the bed brackets work in actual use? My google-fu has not turned up any light on this one.

And, as long as I am asking, what other types of carriage stops are there and how are they used? I have a micrometer stop, I get how that works. I have seen the solid stop. That makes sense also. But there are others out there, both factory and shop made. Some are simple, some look like clockwork. What have you got and how is it put to use?

Click to expand...

I’m actually kinda confused too, the brackets in my mind orientate the stop in a way that seems useless.

Does the stop hit the round portion of the compound?

texasgunsmith said:

Micrometer stops are dead useful. If you don't use a dro, even more so. But even with a dro, I'd want a micrometer stop.

Its use is for setting a dead stop for cutting longitudinal cuts. Put it on chuck side of apron carriage. You will nearly always cut longitudinal with carriage moving towards chuck.

If you are cutting a step on a shaft, multiple passes longitudunal, even using a dial indicator, it hard to stop directly on the mark on each pass. With a micrometer stop, you allow the carriage to bump on the micrometer stop on each pass, thus every pass the cut will finish dead on as the first pass.

A couple of tricks though. You cant leave apron in gear and clutched in as you hit micrometer stop, or you will crash the machine. You either need to disengage clutch and by hand roll carriage till you bump into the stop. Or depending if you have a lever or star handle clutch, try to lightly clutch into it. Or my favorite, leave clutch engaged, but pull spring loaded handle out so that pin is hovering over the hole for long feed engagement, as carriage bumps micrometer stop, the handle is forced to the neutral position. I'd practice that with no work chucked up, and NOT hitting micrometer stop before hand though, get comfortable with it.

Anyway, in most cases I don't adjust the fine tuning of micrometer stop. I set position of the whole stop with machine un-powered, and during the work set up. Just crack the bed clamp portion loose and slide along bed where you want it, and lock it down.

Click to expand...

I think op is asking about the brackets and stop orientation in general, using the 90° brackets moves the stop out of original position.

I use my micrometer stop and bed bracket all the time on my Heavy Ten, have for years.
The stop hits the pad on the saddle whether clamped on the be or attached to the bracket. I also made another micrometer stop with a micrometer head so I can accurately turn up to a shoulder from left to right, or the off chance I need to turn between two stops.
Happy to post a few pictures.
CWC(4)

CWC(4) said:

I use my micrometer stop and bed bracket all the time on my Heavy Ten, have for years.
The stop hits the pad on the saddle whether clamped on the be or attached to the bracket. I also made another micrometer stop with a micrometer head so I can accurately turn up to a shoulder from left to right, or the off chance I need to turn between two stops.
Happy to post a few pictures.
CWC(4)

Click to expand...

Ok so it does still hit the pad on the carriage! That’s what was so confusing.
So the bracket mounts with the tip of the bracket way pointing at the head stock or away?

Homebrewblob said:

Ok so it does still hit the pad on the carriage! That’s what was so confusing.
So the bracket mounts with the tip of the bracket way pointing at the head stock or away?

Click to expand...

To add to the mix my 46 pacemaker(16x102) came with multiple stops for the length and crossfeed. This option was only offered during wartime but I suspect my 46 started life before the war was ended. It was considered a production option even through it had all regular options of a toolmakers lathe. It still holds great tolerances and a pleasure to run.
Hodge

Maybe this will help...



Image I pulled off the web.

-Ron

Homebrewblob said:

I think op is asking about the brackets and stop orientation in general, using the 90° brackets moves the stop out of original position.

Click to expand...

Ahhh. I just saw Ted's thread. I also see you figured out some of it in following posts.

With those bed brackets you are just changing orientation to get over top of qcgb, as posted in that thread, for close up spindle work when chuck is not mounted, like internal collets used. Edit: Metal Carnage posted a pic whilst I typed,

To use the bed brackets, remove lower bed clamp portion from the micrometer stop, but the through bolt will screw into one of those 3 holes in bed bracket. The adjustable shaft of micrometer stop still points towards carriage, but the body of it is pointing down to 6 oclock, verse the normal 9 oclock position.

I think Ted worded it wrong in saying vertical, both uses have it working horizontally. But bed bracket raises it vertically while turning it down 90 degrees.

Normal mounting:


Not exactly a stop, more of just a dial indicator. But I think I'd like to make something like this that uses a true shaft stop, plus a protected indicator. This was from Monarch:



A regular style from Monarch that work like the South Bend:

Hodge said:

To add to the mix my 46 pacemaker(16x102) came with multiple stops for the length and crossfeed. This option was only offered during wartime but I suspect my 46 started life before the war was ended. It was considered a production option even through it had all regular options of a toolmakers lathe. It still holds great tolerances and a pleasure to run.
Hodge

Click to expand...

Could be wrong, but I don't think it was just a war time item. Think along the lines of turret lathes, turret tool posts, etc. Different manufacturers came up with multi position tools or items that fit with what was considered "production". An example is another Monarch offering from a 1957 catalog, with four positions that could be set:



Also the American Tool Works Multi Production Pacemaker, 1933 :
American Tool Works Co. - Publication Reprints - American Multi-Production Pacemaker Lathe : Bulletin No. 445 | VintageMachinery.org

CWC(4) said:

Happy to post a few pictures.
CWC(4)

Click to expand...

Yes, please do!! Turning into an interesting thread!
Personally, I really like that micrometer stop!
Gives me the warm and fuzzies!

PMc

View attachment 317420

mcload said:

Yes, please do!! Turning into an interesting thread!
Personally, I really like that micrometer stop!
Gives me the warm and fuzzies!

PMc

View attachment 317420

Click to expand...

Not sure if you made your indicator set up, but I'd like to make that with an adjustable shaft running parallel to the indicator shaft. You'd get the advantage of a stop, plus you could do a wide range with the indicator. Zero it to the stop once stop is set, Or merely watch indicator in both travel directions. Would help me keep my mental math going with double checking, watching, thinking etc.

The stop shaft could offer some protection for the indicator as a side benefit too. As carriage should bump into stop shaft before bottoming out indicator. A stop shaft might deflect incidental debris or tools from contacting exposed indicator shaft, depending its location anyway.

Come to think of it, the stop shaft does not really need to be adjustable either. I seldom adjust mine by the thumb screw. I adjust by bed clamp and sliding the whole assembly. Just food for thought. . .

texasgunsmith said:

Could be wrong, but I don't think it was just a war time item. Think along the lines of turret lathes, turret tool posts, etc. Different manufacturers came up with multi position tools or items that fit with what was considered "production". An example is another Monarch offering from a 1957 catalog, with four positions that could be set:

View attachment 317419

Also the American Tool Works Multi Production Pacemaker, 1933 :
American Tool Works Co. - Publication Reprints - American Multi-Production Pacemaker Lathe : Bulletin No. 445 | VintageMachinery.org

Click to expand...

I could quite easily be wrong, was trying to remember what was cast into the lower right(multi production) I think I read somewhere that it was discontinued after ww2,(at least the multi-production casting) which probably gave rise to my mistaken belief of of wartime only, mea culpa,

I remember looking it up at one time when I was researching the age on it. Seller seems to have thought it was from late 60's or early 70's. I was a little surprised when I found out the correct age.

Hodge

I use a micrometer stop all the time on my Heavy 10. I have the bed bracket as well and the geometry of the bracket through me for a loop until I used it. As pointed out above, the stop doesn’t clamp to the bracket, it is bolted to it in one of three holes. The bracket isn’t as easy to use as the clamp but it works with the micrometer stop.

As mentioned above having a dial indicator and a positive stop is very useful. I remade the internal barrel of my micrometer stop to be hollow and accept a dial indicator. A plunger runs through the barrel and actuates the dial indicator. The spring keeps the plunger tight on the carriage as the spring in the indicator isn’t strong enough. The factory barrel is on top in this picture and the one I made bellow it.



Here it is all assembled.



I get about 3/4" of travel on the indicator before it hits the hard stop. The indicator starts and stops on zero, I didn't plan it that way but it is extreme convenient that is does. I have recently done a handful of blind internal threads and it was invaluable for stopping before crashing into the bottom of the hole. Feeding to a shoulder is really easy and as long as the feed rate isn't too high, stopping about .005" short and feeding the last bit by hand is simple. Feeding into the hard stop is bad but the clutch will slip. Threading into the hard stop is really bad so I set the stop so I have an extra .200" travel past where I want to stop threading so I have a "window" to disengage the half nuts in. The dial, stop set up works on the bracket as well, just need to rotate the indicator so you can see it.

Hope this helps.

Ben

Another approach to this, a few scraps of aluminum and steel:

MetalCarnage said:

Maybe this will help...

Image I pulled off the web.

-Ron

Click to expand...

THIS! Thank you! I googled the whole world and did not come up with this picture. Now it makes sense. Now I gotta get me one.

I like the dial indicator stops. I can see the benefit in watching the needle climb to zero and knowing when to release the clutch.

Now what about the rotating 4-stop thing? How does THAT work? And the flip out door hinge ones that I think are shop made? And others?

texasgunsmith said:

Not sure if you made your indicator set up, but I'd like to make that with an adjustable shaft running parallel to the indicator shaft. You'd get the advantage of a stop, plus you could do a wide range with the indicator. Zero it to the stop once stop is set, Or merely watch indicator in both travel directions. Would help me keep my mental math going with double checking, watching, thinking etc.

The stop shaft could offer some protection for the indicator as a side benefit too. As carriage should bump into stop shaft before bottoming out indicator. A stop shaft might deflect incidental debris or tools from contacting exposed indicator shaft, depending its location anyway.

Come to think of it, the stop shaft does not really need to be adjustable either. I seldom adjust mine by the thumb screw. I adjust by bed clamp and sliding the whole assembly. Just food for thought. . .

Click to expand...

Thanks Gunny; I appreciate the thought and feedback. Of course, you are absolutely right about adding a stop.
Actually, as I'm prone to do, I just threw that photo in there just for the helluvit without knowing it showed the dial indicator.
Yes, I bought it on that auction site.
But I'll have to give it a second look to see if there's enough meat on it for a threaded rod.

BTW, since we're talking carriage stops and types, there's been no discussion on using the big brute below. Only for catastrophe prevention?

PMc

View attachment 317460

mcload said:

BTW, since we're talking carriage stops and types, there's been no discussion on using the big brute below. Only for catastrophe prevention?

PMc

View attachment 317460

Click to expand...

I suspect its intended use is for the tail stock side of saddle/apron. I had a project recently, I'm cutting longitudinal. . .a lot of passes. Felt like a million passes . . . I was getting to where I was getting in hurry. On the return passes, I kept returning too much, set depth for a cutting pass, then extra hand cranks to get back close to work before engaging power feed. I was wearing myself out with all the extra hand cranks .

Just happen to have a 2nd micrometer stop, so I set up on tail stock side. On return passes I set it up so saddle would bump into it after just clearing the work. Reduced my hand cranks by a lot. I suspect that piece may be for that.

Both the regular carriage stop as shown by Mcload and the micrometer carriage stop can be used on both sides of the carriage.This may have stemmed from something that was done before thread chasing dials were common. It is possible to open the splitnut while threading if you can bring the carriage back to the exact same place and use a mark on the chuck to close it. Not exactly that simple and not as easy as a dial, but it works.

Sorry, been away from PM for a couple of days.
Here are a few pictures of the micrometer stop on the bed bracket and on the bed itself. I show a picture of the two different bolt lengths needed to accommodate the different mounts. The longer one for mounting on the bed and the shorter one for the bracket.
Also a picture of the other micrometer stop that I made with a Mitutoyo micrometer head for use on the right side of the carriage (pretty simple to make, thread dial needs to be removed to use this one). Also pictured is another stop/indicator that I rarely use, incorporates a micrometer dial and a dial indicator.