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  1. #1
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    Default Concerned about my ways

    I have a 1943 SB 9A that i've been restoring. I think its a fairly decent machine, although I haven't made any cuts with it yet-it needed some work before I could run it, and now i'm working on a bench for it.

    I've been looking at the ways, and they look decent but i've been psyching myself out regarding the ways and what kind of condition they're in. Do you guys have any opinions on the condition of my ways? On the off chance that I do decide to have my ways reground and possibly scraped due to the lathe having bad ways, where would I send it to be done, and approximately how much would it cost? I'm sure the answer to that question is "more than you want to spend". I suppose ultimately i'm just looking for a bit of reassurance that I haven't been throwing my money and time into a black hole of a machine. I should add that some of the ridges are deep enough to catch a fingernail on

    back-v-way.jpgdings-headstock.jpgthumbnail-3-.jpgthumbnail-4-.jpgthumbnail-5-.jpg

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    Additional pictures

    thumbnail-6-.jpgthumbnail.jpg

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    They look fine to me, any machine of this age of going to have some visual wear. I don't think you'll find it to much much of a problem at all. Just put her to work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domodude17 View Post
    Additional pictures

    thumbnail-6-.jpgthumbnail.jpg
    It's an old south bend, their all a bit loose. It will be fine, you would be amazed how much wear it can have with no effect on your project. You will spend 3-4x the value of the machine for a regrind/scrape job.

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    Thumbnail #5 does show a pretty deep ridge at the top of the vee, and it looks to be fairly far down the bed from the headstock. Is it any worse 6" to a foot or so in front of the headstock on the front V? This is where the most wear typically is...

    What do the saddle v-ways look like? Saddle wear is always heavier than the bed.

    That all said, I agree with the above that it can probably turn out acceptable work for a home shop- it's a matter of learning the machine and compensating, depending on the operations.

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    Bust out some trig, you'll see just how little bed wear has an effect on part diameters.

    For instance- if you're turning an 18" long, 1" diameter shaft and the bed has 0.030" wear toward the head stock but is absolutely pristine near the tail stock. what does that look like?

    Your tailstock end will be 1.000", and the headstock end will be 1.0018". Good practice will easily compensate for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domodude17 View Post
    I have a 1943 SB 9A that i've been restoring. I think its a fairly decent machine, although I haven't made any cuts with it yet-it needed some work before I could run it, and now i'm working on a bench for it.

    I've been looking at the ways, and they look decent but i've been psyching myself out regarding the ways and what kind of condition they're in. Do you guys have any opinions on the condition of my ways? On the off chance that I do decide to have my ways reground and possibly scraped due to the lathe having bad ways, where would I send it to be done, and approximately how much would it cost? I'm sure the answer to that question is "more than you want to spend". I suppose ultimately i'm just looking for a bit of reassurance that I haven't been throwing my money and time into a black hole of a machine. I should add that some of the ridges are deep enough to catch a fingernail on

    back-v-way.jpgdings-headstock.jpgthumbnail-3-.jpgthumbnail-4-.jpgthumbnail-5-.jpg
    .
    to be honest newly reground or worn ways you still not going to make high precision parts. machine lack of rigidity and flexing from many spots as well as parts flexing when being machined you lucky you hold a .001" tolerance turning.
    .
    most of the time i just sanded parts to .0002" and never trusted trying to directly turn parts to those tolerances. also as part changes temperature its size changes. warm part measures smaller when back at room temperature

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    As a machine rebuider by trade I think it looks bad. The front way looks like sand paper to me. If the bed is that bad the bottom of the saddle is probably twice that bad.

    You would need to decide if your looking for looks and accuracy or just get it running? You could lightly file then stone it and put it back together. If your going to just do some basic lathe work and no need for accuracy then slap it back together.

    If you want to make it look and work better call around to some local rebuilders and ask them. You may find an old timer with a planer who would do it and cut and stone the ways and saddle for $500.00. It being apart will help. If you want more info on rebuilding we can help you do it in the Machine Reconditioning forum. Rich

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    my point is spending $500 or more to regrind ways is like spending $2000. to fix a 15 year old pickup truck. usually not worth it
    .
    if its a monarch lathe worth over $10,000 thats one thing. whats lathe worth now ? and whats it worth after regrinding ?
    .
    worse is spending over $1000. and it only works marginally better. not like its going to hold .0001" tolerances ever.

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    Don't be! Lightly stone any high spots down on the sides and tops of the V ways, and call the low spots oil traps! It will be fine. On an old machine there is no point in chasing perfection, make the parts you want to make and if the lathe will not perform accurately enough, THEN look for the problem!

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    Tom after working alongside and teaching Hobbyists I have discovered many don't consider time is money and many want to repair their machines even when some of us would sell it and buy a better machine. Have to admire their drive. When I see them scraping a shaper to 40 points per inch when they could stop at 10, they don't care that it takes 3 times longer, just that they can do it their way. Or paint a machine 3 layers or lacquer paint so it shines like a race car. I have discovered It's best to guide them and not tell them.
    Last edited by Richard King; 01-04-2018 at 04:55 AM.

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    There is no point in regrinding an old south bend. I understand why you want to do it and you will probably paint this thing up like a prom queen. If it is bothering you right now I know from selling machine tools to hobbiests that it will bother you to the point of distraction later. So if you are the kind of person who can just let things go and move on the put it back together and use it. But since you even asked you are the type of person who likes perfection so I think you should totally rebuild this thing and post pics so we can admire your hard work.

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    I would lightly stone the ways, then use it. If you aren't satisfied with it, look for a better machine while you are learning on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Durnya View Post
    I would lightly stone the ways, then use it. If you aren't satisfied with it, look for a better machine while you are learning on this one.
    Yeah, you won't really know how bad (or good?) it is till you actually run it. The analogy of an old pickup is a good one; you wouldn't normally
    spend a lot of money on one till you had a chance to drive it for a while and figure out what the problems actually were. And in the end, even
    if the bed does have some wear, you'll be surprised how "good" you can be in spite of it.

    You have to understand too that most of the participants on this forum have "working" shops and as such don't see the value in spending a
    lot of time refurbishing a low value lathe. If, on the other hand, you really want this to be a pristine rebuild and you have the time and the money
    to do it then by all means go for it...

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    i have made a Gingery lathe before and yes as a hobby, its not cost effective but more a learning experience. after decades it ended up going to junk yard. why ?
    .
    cause i bought a lathe with cnc ability that was better designed and did more and at the time i wanted to learn cnc not build another lathe. you can build a car or buy a car already made. guess it depends if you want more to drive the car or to be always building the car rather than driving it
    .
    do you want to use the lathe or be always rebuilding it ?? do you want to be a shop machinist making parts or a maintenance machinist fixing machines ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    i have made a Gingery lathe before and yes as a hobby,
    Oh I still have those books, some 35 years later.

    fun read, but I figured out I could go buy a lathe for a couple hundred bucks. Made some real stuff on my Atlas 6 inch[!] lathe back in the day.

    The problem with bed wear is that the average over the length is not important, it is all at one spot, and it is right where you work.

    stone and clean the flat way and measure the difference between the far end[zero wear] and the max wear point just off the chuck. Less than a thou and you won't see it

    I also agree with put it together and see what it does. It may not bother you

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    I have a SB 13” (that gets almost no use).
    It’s ways look very similar to yours, and have a VERY noticeable ridge close to the tail stock.

    Last year I tried a 2-collar test, just started for the crap of it, since I was doing the same (leveling) on the Monarch 60.

    The South Bend turned a piece with only .0002 or .0003 taper. It wasn’t 12” long, but I was surprised! And the lathe being in original, well-worn paint, looks just beautiful. The joy of creating something with a lathe quickly diminishes any desire to cosmetically refurbish it, for me anyway.

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    THE LATHE IS JUNK!

    You need to finish reassembling it and then pass it along to another PM member for cheap money.

    Just kidding. As other have said that model is not a tool room lathe and never will be. That bed looks "lightly used" compared to some I've seen.

    Lightly stone off any raised burrs and then use it. Keep it clean and the ways lubed and you'll make thousands of parts with it over the years.

    Even if that still bothers you and you just have to trade up to a better lathe with pristine ways make your mistakes on that one before you upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Oh I still have those books, some 35 years later.

    fun read, but I figured out I could go buy a lathe for a couple hundred bucks. Made some real stuff on my Atlas 6 inch[!] lathe back in the day.

    The problem with bed wear is that the average over the length is not important, it is all at one spot, and it is right where you work.

    stone and clean the flat way and measure the difference between the far end[zero wear] and the max wear point just off the chuck. Less than a thou and you won't see it

    I also agree with put it together and see what it does. It may not bother you
    .
    Gingery books is more learning to make castings with a small foundry. but many times i have made parts from cast iron bars just machined from relatively big solid piece
    .
    not many places even run a foundry and machine shop any more. in USA cast iron foundries are much rarer than 50 years ago. many business gave up on the foundry business and went totally to cnc machining

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    Locally, we have someone trying to sell a heavy ten for over a grand and the ridge on the bed is so deep (how deep is it?) that you could measure it with a ruler.

    That one looks like it will be pretty good once you stone down any high spots.

    I would do whatever rebuilding you are going to do and run it first. The trig may just work out to where it not noticeable.

    My lathe has maybe a thou of wear and I can turn a damn straight part with it.

    Steve


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