Correct Way To Chuck A Machine Gear? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    So, Goldstien, you still have not specified the tolerance you are looking for, filling up a 4 jaw chuck with pins, rings, and a gear.
    I have the feeling you have never tried this "way" you are recommendingg, in fact I challenge you to find any publication that shows this.
    I have been watching you Goldstien, since you were inquiring about United Stated Nuclear Weapons materials.
    Try showing some photos, for credibility.

    mr oder, and I have another more accurate way, not on a lathe, or grinder, faster! another subject, probably never to be discussed, with all the trolls and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    I have the feeling you have never tried this "way" you are recommendingg, in fact I challenge you to find any publication that shows this.
    Well, sorry, donie (you're not related to Donnie Rich, I hope ?) what you believe is up to you. But, to be blunt, you are showing a massive amount of ignorance about gears. And that's all I'ma gonna say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Well, sorry, donie (you're not related to Donnie Rich, I hope ?) what you believe is up to you. But, to be blunt, you are showing a massive amount of ignorance about ^^^ metalworking in general, as opposed to cleaning and photographing ^^^ And that's all I'ma gonna say.
    ROFL! "fixed that for yah". Long history in PM's annals!

    "BREWSKI" called him out ages ago as strangely inept even as a motor-dick-le jug rebuilder!
    He thinks "brand name" makes HIM as good as the brand he touts, same as dropping a genuine Aloris QCTP - oversized, of course - onto a clapped-out SB nine makes a hobbyist into a master machinist with an up-motored Large & Shapely Omni-Turn!

    PeterH used to wind him up to show us the famous "cheap saw" arbour or the cut-down chucks (how smart was THAT, and why wuddja, easy as it is to horsetrade or purchase?) ..... for about the 400th time!

    You two should get along rather well!



    Go for it! Duty-roster change!

    You'll know you have found his "purple button" when he starts lusting after yer ass and c**k, promising he "will stop you!" right in front of God and the internet!

    Need to go for ...

    His ship-to address ain't hard to find if'n yah want to drop ship him a pallet of "Boy Butter" outta mercy! Tight squeeze getting all that Old Iron into a Hobbit-house on about a one-tenth-acre lot, yah?

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    Hey Mcload, Great thread! You really fired up the troops on this one, little bit of everything mixed in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Hey Mcload, Great thread! You really fired up the troops on this one, little bit of everything mixed in.
    Tell it!

    South Bent ain't much of lathe, what with Iron Deficiency Anemia as an allergy baked into the spaghetti of the bed..

    But damned if some serious good WORK don't get done on 'em by patient and caring craftsmen ... in spite of their modest nachur!

    Arranged marriages for Trolls might be a first, but you know how it is?

    "Run what yah GOT!"

    "Menage a trois?" Dibs on the Astro Glide concession!!!


    Extra fee for Capsaicin and steamed towels, BTW.

    Towel Walla wouldn't want to get stiffed over being shorted a tip..
    You'd have to know the "White Rose", Vientiane?
    Kinda makes a cynic "cynical?"
    Unless one was bald-headed, BOTH heads attended to!


  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    So, Goldstien, you still have not specified the tolerance you are looking for, filling up a 4 jaw chuck with pins, rings, and a gear.
    I have the feeling you have never tried this "way" you are recommendingg, in fact I challenge you to find any publication that shows this.
    I have been watching you Goldstien, since you were inquiring about United Stated Nuclear Weapons materials.
    Try showing some photos, for credibility.

    mr oder, and I have another more accurate way, not on a lathe, or grinder, faster! another subject, probably never to be discussed, with all the trolls and such.
    I don't know why the conclusion that you need to chuck the gear up on pins. I would never do that. When I did my 16-DP gears, I used brass shims on the 4 jaws and 1 pin to center the pitch circle. This is done with the jaws in an X orientation.

    First I made 1 pin from specs I found in Machinery's Handbook. The correct pin size will rest on the involute shape and just clear the OD of the teeth. Then it was simple matter of laying the pin in a tooth at the top of the gear between the jaws. Set up test indicator on the carriage so the point is close to TDC of the spindle. Then set zero over the pin by rotating the spindle slightly to find highest reading. Then move the carriage out to clear the jaws, swing to the next gap, and repeat.

    This is comparative measurement technique. Takes just a few minutes to center the pitch circle within 0.0005". Again only 1 pin necessary and that is not used to clamp the gear. Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjs44032 View Post
    I don't know why the conclusion that you need to chuck the gear up on pins. I would never do that. When I did my 16-DP gears, I used brass shims on the 4 jaws and 1 pin to center the pitch circle. This is done with the jaws in an X orientation.

    First I made 1 pin from specs I found in Machinery's Handbook. The correct pin size will rest on the involute shape and just clear the OD of the teeth. Then it was simple matter of laying the pin in a tooth at the top of the gear between the jaws. Set up test indicator on the carriage so the point is close to TDC of the spindle. Then set zero over the pin by rotating the spindle slightly to find highest reading. Then move the carriage out to clear the jaws, swing to the next gap, and repeat.

    This is comparative measurement technique. Takes just a few minutes to center the pitch circle within 0.0005". Again only 1 pin necessary and that is not used to clamp the gear. Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,
    Bob
    Well, yes. Ohio-people-smarts. Machine-tool industry didn't grow up in Ohio because paint was easier to grow from seedlings.

    The method you describe is FUNCTIONALLY identical to having a DI with a bar or ball stylus attached, bar or ball size chosen to hit the PD of the specific family of gears being worked.

    Had to do it OFTEN enough that's what you'd order-up from the custom gage folks or DIY for the time saved off a reduction in junk to fart around with handling.

    Fewsies? BFD. JFDI.

    Gage pin sets are cheap enough and close enough is good enough. This s**t repeats on the involute, right-on PD or not. IF not? THEN ...the gear is a POS, regardless.

    Even at its best, it's a gear, not a precision spindle bearing roller.

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    bunch of dumb people here, Emanuel is correct, but you don't listen, proper way is to machine over wires, or tooling that locate the gear pitch diameter.
    if the od was machine concentric to the bore, and then it's possible to locate on the gear od, if it's concentric. other wise inducing error onto the pitch diameter,

    better to use soft pie jaws not four jaw, then there's no problem. all wires have to be precision, and the same,

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1953chevB View Post
    bunch of dumb people here, Emanuel is correct, but you don't listen, proper way is to machine over wires, or tooling that locate the gear pitch diameter.
    Yah think?

    Yah well.. "proper" is simple. Value-for-money minimum unit-cost, when it comes to "productizing".

    Ergo, those among us whose Day Job it was to make the damned fixtures or hire them made so the product didn't cost the very EARTH in scrap nor wasted time and labour ... if even yah could FIND those skillsets to do it the "do one, show me" onesie-way ...weren't meant to "listen".

    We were meant to address the challenge in a manner such that a min-wage munchkin, hung-over of a Monday morning from a binge drunk started Friday afternoon.. wasn't ABLE to get it wrong even with a Federal Court Order, shop-steward in support.

    Best way to solve such problems is prevention. SEE TO IT the tops of the teeth ARE congruent with the PD. NOW yah can power-pie it or power-pot-collet it, nary a care in the whirl. BETTER way is to make the gear so it needeth ZERO further handling. No clamping because there IS NO subtractive machining at all.

    If Designers, Product Engineers, Industrial Engineers, Manufacturing Managers, Financiers, and MD/Chairmen (guilty, ALL counts, sue me..) ran factories to Physics Lab, R&D, or Job shop / hobby-shop "Mr. Fixit" techniques?

    Y'all "consumers" could not afford a bleedin' WHEELBARROW nor a molded rubbish bin, let alone a decent motor car nor the price of an airplane ride!

    We gots to price all this s**t so even "dumb people" can afford it!

    Ever wonder why THAT is? "Majority" - where the MONEY IS - work for yah?

    “The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots. If you are not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you can only operate well by pretending to be one."

    Herman Wouk


    ...or operate profitably by SELLING to...

    See: "William Henry Gates, III"


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    Quote Originally Posted by rjs44032 View Post
    First I made 1 pin from specs I found in Machinery's Handbook. The correct pin size will rest on the involute shape and just clear the OD of the teeth. Then it was simple matter of laying the pin in a tooth at the top of the gear between the jaws.
    Yeah, you could do that. Same thing but takes longer and is a bunch more fiddly, so if you have 100 parts to grind, not likely to go this way. But the principle is the same.

    One correction though, can use any size wire, makes no difference. The 1.728/DP is just a convenience for buying commercial wires, any size that puts the o.d. of the wire above the o.d. of the teeth will work fine. In fact there's even different 'standards', 1.728 isn't the only one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Yeah, you could do that. Same thing but takes longer and is a bunch more fiddly, so if you have 100 parts to grind, not likely to go this way. But the principle is the same.

    One correction though, can use any size wire, makes no difference. The 1.728/DP is just a convenience for buying commercial wires, any size that puts the o.d. of the wire above the o.d. of the teeth will work fine. In fact there's even different 'standards', 1.728 isn't the only one.
    Agreed, I only had small number to do. So couldn't justify special fixture. And I still agree that centering with pin (or pins) is best course.

    Best Regards,
    Bob

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Hey Mcload, Great thread! You really fired up the troops on this one, little bit of everything mixed in.
    Well I didn't mean to.

    PMc

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  15. #33
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    "Life has many ways to further an education." Well, "Bill" you must got dropped on you head and it stopped".

    This is really funny! still sticking the pins and stuff in a 4 jaw "lathe' chuck, Goldstien trying to change it to "in a grinder' we also got pie jaws, and maybe it could be spun into a sandwich platter!

    Still, mr Oder, and I have an easier, more accurate way to do it, but the rest cant participate, its just not fair!

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    when someone can not reply with a logical reasonable answer they start with derogatory stupid comments. it shows unprofessionalism. do you speak to your customers this way?

    turning and grinding the bore was not invented by us, it was the old gurus of the gear industry, pass down by generations, Dudley, Walter Dalby of Invo Spline, and others. This is only used when repairing or reworking hub gears. Normally a ground bore is used to grind finished gears, since in this case the gears are finished.
    it is a must that the pitch diameter of the gear must be used as datum, and tooled on it. any other way it will induce errors, three pin is used to average out the
    pitch diameter, using more will not work as well. I was taught by Roger Blanchard ACR now Triumph Gear, who was taught by Walter Dalby, who were gurus of their time.

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    If the gear is ground, the bore must be ground also, runout must be .0003 Max, if it is a cut gear only, the runout can be .001 max or as good as the gear errors allows

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    Why not indicate it on a mill and bore the hole there if there is concern about the ability to hold it on the lathe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksimolo View Post
    Why not indicate it on a mill and bore the hole there if there is concern about the ability to hold it on the lathe?
    Good point, however, I unfortunately don't own a mill.

    PMc

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcload View Post
    Good point, however, I unfortunately don't own a mill.

    PMc
    I thought he was offering to do it for you! LOL

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