Could use some help ID'ing this old girl.

Hey folks, I'm new around here and this is actually my first post. I have recently picked up an old South Bend lathe and have been doing my homework trying to figure out what exactly it is. Here is the run down of what I know so far...

I ordered the serial card from Grizzly and it really didn't do anything but raise more questions. The serial card from Grizzly shows a build date of 4/2/1951. The serial number stamped in the bed is "2222TKX" but the card sent to me by Grizzly shows "2222TKL9" with a catalog number of CL8145B. When looking at the serial number decoder, the "X" indicates some "special" features. The serial card tells me that it is a 13" swing x 5' bed, however the physical measurement of the bed shows me that it is a 4' bed, which wasn't a standard option for a 13" tool room lathe in '51. Furthermore, the head stock looks to be of an earlier generation, say pre 1940, when they had the oil cups on top of the spindle bearing caps? I have confirmed that it does have 2 piece, I am thinking bronze, spindle bearings. The spindle thread I believe is the 1 7/8"-8, which also dates the headstock pre 1950 I think. The quick change gear box also has only 1 lever, but I believe by 1950 they had changed to a 2 lever style quick change gearbox. The gearing for spindle speeds also appears to be non-standard based on any catalog around this time that I can find. Maybe this thing was built as a custom ordered piece with a short bed, and specific spindle speeds needed and they put something together with an older gearbox and headstock to accommodate? I am hoping that someone here will have some insight as to what I actually have.

Here is a link to an album with several pics I took of the lathe before removing it from the shop where I picked it up, and the serial card.

TIA for any help.

Not as well versed as some on here but that lathe looks older than '51 as I think they went to a double handle gear box in the early '40s.

Just adding to the confusion.

FWIW

-Ron

Single lever gearbox, star clutch handle, top oilers.

My SB16 is a late 1957 model with hard bed, dual lever gearbox and star clutch.

Seeing your single lever makes me agree with metal carnage that your lathe is 1948-1951

The X in your serial just means “custom”,

It’s a heads up to the guys on the assembly line to PAY ATTENTION is all,

It just means the lathe was ordered with a request not in the formal catalog.

For example if you had a under mount drive and ordered it without a motor all together it would be a X custom.

Grizzly doesn’t have every card, some cards are upwards of 100 years old

The 2 TPI QC gear box was gone in the late thirties. All later single tumbler QC boxes were 4 TPI

My August '46 full line catalog 100-F still has the single tumbler set up

Here is the last of the 13" with 2 TPI gear box in '39 - right on Mr. Well's web page

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1939_Circular_No.13-1/Circular_No.13-1.pdf

have fun

Johns right, the single lever was still around

2168TKL9 shipped 5/24/1951
2222TKL9(2222TKX) Shipped 5/07/1951
That’s weird but not uncommon.

2330TKL9 "Stubby" 13L 4ft bed A Series S CL145-A FLR-UMD FFA
Looks like by lathe number 2330 they officially had a cl145-A 4ft bed cat#

I’m starting to think they have you the correct card and you got a kinda rare early short bed.

The oilers on top the headstock usually mean it’s a solid cast iron bearing. The brass bearings had expanders with screws on top

Seeing those crooked numbers are related to the custom bed I bet.

That headstock you have is not to that bed if that bed is a 1951 because the serial card says “headstock vh112” and the gearbox says qc9102 (quick change) that headstock number is to a bronze bearing head with side oilers and that gearbox number is to a single lever gearbox.

It came equip with a taper attachment that’s missing and being a tool room model would of CERTAINLY had the large dials, I feel like your saddle was swapped out

A101 apron is the star clutch apron.

So it looks to me like your headstock has been swapped out and the bed serial altered/damaged.

Please clean the serial number better for us to compare

There exists a rare ball bearing headstock (but it doesn’t have oilers on top I don’t think).

Please verify brass bearings

Your also missing a ft of bed, it is possible that was the X on your card, they didn’t offer it but they DID take custom orders and the serial card catalog number wouldn’t reflect the short bed as they didn’t have a cat number for that size bed and being a custom bed it would of certainly been marked with a TKX instead of TKL9.

Volz was a dealer in Chicago I believe so they would of had the power to make some demands



My lathe is also an X but a standard bed size so my cat# and serial number are identical.

So yeah that all makes some sense.

Buddy I would crack them bearing caps and inspect for brass, iron or ball bearings. If that’s a ball bearing head you got a freaking diamond.

It is possible (although very unlikely) that headstock was a later replacement, if the original headstock was some how damaged beyond repair (cracked casting) southbend could of supplied a replacement headstock but usually this is Referenced on the serial card.

The apron you have has hex bolts in it, I’m not sure on the 13 what it should be, my 57 SB16 has flat heads.

I’m convinced now.

You have a custom short bed/ gearbox toolroom lathe with a swapped early 40’s headstock.

Your serial card shows non standard gear sets.

It Was custom ordered by volz a machinery dealer in Chicago.

The records of who bought/owned this lathe is long gone, volz is still in business but I believe under a different name in Chicago but have since lost these records

Homebrewblob said:

I’m convinced now.

You have a custom short bed/ gearbox toolroom lathe with a swapped early 40’s headstock.

Your serial card shows non standard gear sets.

It Was custom ordered by volz a machinery dealer in Chicago.

The records of who bought/owned this lathe is long gone, volz is still in business but I believe under a different name in Chicago but have since lost these records

Click to expand...

Well I took a couple more pictures and added them to that album I linked in the first post. They are definitely the 30's and 40's style "Phosphor Bronze" bearings. It does not have a rolling thrust bearing, but just a thrust washer on the cone pully side of the back bearing, and the fiber washer on the take up nut side. Based on all the elements that I can find in old catalogs that I read nearly all weekend, I believe that headstock and QCGB to be '38 or '39. The apron looks to me to be maybe early to mid 40's, maybe '43? Based on the serial number and card, it was definitely built in early '51 as a custom order. I want to believe that it was built this way at the factory due to many of the standard ID plates, such as the one under the headstock belt cover and the one on the gear cover, that indicated speeds are missing, and I can't find any evidence that they were ever there. This leads me to think that they were left off intentionally from the factory due to the spindle speeds on this machine being non-standard, and there is a hand stamped plate on the headstock, which there is a pic of in the album, showing a set of spindle speeds that I cannot find as a standard in any catalog from '30-'52. Just further complicating things for everyone! Thanks again for all the input, keep it coming, and I'll keep updating as I get deeper into it.