Cracked Motor End Bell Repair?
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  1. #1
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    Default Cracked Motor End Bell Repair?

    Fellows,

    I was going to reinstall the motor to my 1943 heavy 10 that I am working on an d while carrying it I caught my foot on a cord and dropped it cracking one of the end bells.

    I'd like to try fixing this end bell. The broken piece fits in very nicely. I thought I would epoxy the broken piece in place and then drill the end bell at multiple points along the cracks and braze at the drill points.

    What do y'all think? Can you suggest a better method?


    Thank fellows,

    Vlad
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20201202_163356.jpg   20201202_163346.jpg   20201202_154612.jpg  

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    Looks like cast iron. If it is, then V it out a bit, then MIG weld it with small skip welds. It's a low stress componend and the remaining metal will locate it.

    I've done this on a couple and have had good results.

    Inconel 82 wire would be perfect, 309 stainless next, but mild steel will do for the job.

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    Cast iron welding rod would be better, then remachine the flange mounting boss true to the bore of the bushing...Phil

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    If the break is clean and free of oil, etc., then I would use JB weld. With the piece pushed in so it fits quite tightly and clamped there, that should be plenty. JB weld is much stronger than the part needs.

    I've done it with other parts and it's just amazing how well it works.

    However, if you're going to braze or weld it do not contaminate the joint with epoxy!

    Pete

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    That is NOT in a "low stress" area! Any upward force on the pulley is transferred to the shaft, then to the bearing, then to the housing and then to the mount. I doubt that JB Weld (or any epoxy) would hold very long. You are going to have to weld it back together. A bronze braze would also work.

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    Silicon Bronze if you have a TIG welder.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    that third pic tells it all

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    If I really had to use it I would add support plates internally. Drill and tap holes for each plate. Due to uneven surface the plate won't mount flat. Use flat washers as shims between plate and housing, in a manner so that you can tighten all bolts and the seam of break is even and closed. From there I'd spot weld a handful of locations.

    542.jpg

    I'd also casually watch for a like motor, that's cheap or toasted for the casting.

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    What’s the specs on that motor? My buddy who does all my motors has quite a few old school motors laying around. I could match one up and send you the whole motor. I’m talking burnt out/faulty motors you can salvage the frame from

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    Clumsy bastard...

    Sorry, just had to get that in...


    Quote Originally Posted by 1yesca View Post
    that third pic tells it all
    I agree. That whole end is not just cracked but broken right out. Not going to be easy to fix and maintain
    alignment. It's bound to pull some during any welding process. You'd be far better off finding another end
    bell if you can.

    As for the JB Weld idea. Are you freakin' kidding me?

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    Is it possible to machine a new bell end? I did one to modify a 1 hp Lesson for my belt sander.





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    PmgRacer. That is beautiful work. Just curious, did you machine that from one piece, or from a weldment? Also, what did you machine it with (i.e. manual/cnc)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10KPete View Post
    If the break is clean and free of oil, etc., then I would use JB weld. With the piece pushed in so it fits quite tightly and clamped there, that should be plenty. JB weld is much stronger than the part needs.

    I've done it with other parts and it's just amazing how well it works.

    However, if you're going to braze or weld it do not contaminate the joint with epoxy!

    Pete
    yes one could jb it to hold it in place then at the crack line drill and tap some #10 32 tpi hole and loctite some screws in and hold them in place with nuts that mite work as the jb would hole things in place as it was being drill and taped but you would be drilling at about 45 degree and you would want to have all the screws started and work them down a bit at a time to keep thing from popping out would not be the best way but it mite do and you got not a thing to lose at this point like edison would say i can tell you a 1000 ways it won't work but if you take your time one way or another you will get it
    Last edited by 1yesca; 12-03-2020 at 09:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LKeithR View Post
    As for the JB Weld idea. Are you freakin' kidding me?
    Nope, not kidding. Try something different once. You might just be amazed what you can learn.

    I've been fixing things for over 60 years. And designing and building and fabricating. Most all materials and systems.

    I've done many cast iron repairs from little junk like that motor to half ton castings.

    Pete

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    Personally, I think you're just pissin' in the wind trying to fix, weld, or glue that bell-end together.
    Its gunna crack like an egg once you tighten down the four chassis bolts. Material looks way too thin and there
    are MULTIPLE breaks!

    The damage is done; accidents happen. I'd start shopping for another motor.
    Just saying.

    PMc

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    Braze should work fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjr6550 View Post
    PmgRacer. That is beautiful work. Just curious, did you machine that from one piece, or from a weldment? Also, what did you machine it with (i.e. manual/cnc)?
    Thank you. That is from a piece of aluminum round stock. I did it on a manual South Bend SBL 400. I modeled the new cover up in 3D CAD using the original cover as reference while incorporating the new features I needed. I have no access to CNC equipment so I get to do things the “hard way”. Cracked Motor End Bell Repair?


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    id bolt it all together, make sure its free and give it a few stitches.
    either mechanical or braze/weld/solder...combination...whatever youre capable of.

    im a hack that way..

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    Gentlemen,

    I thank all of your for your suggestions. I'm not sure what route I will follow. I do have oxy-acetylene, which I have used to braze the cast iron motor cradle together. I also have a MIG welder and a TIG welder, neither of which am I proficient with.

    I think using oxy-acetylene would not fare well as there would be to much of the bell being heated affecting the fit of the portion broken out.

    For now I have epoxied the part in place. Not to run it this way though it may work just fine as it is the blind end of the motor shaft, not the pulley end, so the side load stress on the shaft should be minimal. I epoxied the part in place to hold it stationary while I stitch braze or weld the broken piece in place.

    Concerns about contaminating the repair with the epoxy should be mitigated as I will "V" out the crack at each point I stitch the repair.

    Prior to attempting the stitching I think I should practice with the MIG and TIG welders to improve my technique with both and to determine which I can manipulate best.

    I think the best solution will be TIG brazing but to date my TIG welding has been much worse than my MIG welding.

    As to LKeeithR's comment that I am a "clumsy bastard", Yes, Yes I am.

    Lovely bit of machining PmGRacer. Beyond my abilities right now, especially since my heavy 10 is in pieces and my Cincinnati Tray-Top 12 1/2" lathe has bad headstock bearings and a significant hop to any chuck I attach. The goal is to get the heavy 10 up and running and then repair the Cincinnati Tray-Top.

    Homebrewblob, If I am unable to facilitate a repair to this end bell I will contact you about a replacement parts motor. Thank you for the offer.

    It will take some time for me to become good enough to use the MIG or TIG for this repair but when I am done I will be sure to update this thread with photos of the result, good or bad as there seems to be some interest from y'all.

    Again I thank you all for your advice.

    Vlad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladymere gr View Post
    Gentlemen,

    I thank all of your for your suggestions. I'm not sure what route I will follow. I do have oxy-acetylene, which I have used to braze the cast iron motor cradle together. I also have a MIG welder and a TIG welder, neither of which am I proficient with.

    I think using oxy-acetylene would not fare well as there would be to much of the bell being heated affecting the fit of the portion broken out.

    For now I have epoxied the part in place. Not to run it this way though it may work just fine as it is the blind end of the motor shaft, not the pulley end, so the side load stress on the shaft should be minimal. I epoxied the part in place to hold it stationary while I stitch braze or weld the broken piece in place.

    Concerns about contaminating the repair with the epoxy should be mitigated as I will "V" out the crack at each point I stitch the repair.

    Prior to attempting the stitching I think I should practice with the MIG and TIG welders to improve my technique with both and to determine which I can manipulate best.

    I think the best solution will be TIG brazing but to date my TIG welding has been much worse than my MIG welding.

    As to LKeeithR's comment that I am a "clumsy bastard", Yes, Yes I am.

    Lovely bit of machining PmGRacer. Beyond my abilities right now, especially since my heavy 10 is in pieces and my Cincinnati Tray-Top 12 1/2" lathe has bad headstock bearings and a significant hop to any chuck I attach. The goal is to get the heavy 10 up and running and then repair the Cincinnati Tray-Top.

    Homebrewblob, If I am unable to facilitate a repair to this end bell I will contact you about a replacement parts motor. Thank you for the offer.

    It will take some time for me to become good enough to use the MIG or TIG for this repair but when I am done I will be sure to update this thread with photos of the result, good or bad as there seems to be some interest from y'all.

    Again I thank you all for your advice.

    Vlad
    gods speed


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