Cracked Motor End Bell Repair? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Vlad, thank you for the compliment.

    As far as “heat process repairing” your part, I would preheat the entire casting to be repaired say in a bbq or old oven so when you put the coals of a TIG torch to it you are less likely to warp/crack the casting and it will be easier to “start” a silicon bead. The S Bronze works very well at a lower temp than you would use for oxy brazing. Try running a few beads on scrap metal similar in thickness to the repair so you get a feel.

    With decent practice you should be able to S Braze your part back together and not have to remachine all the surfaces again. Look for weldingtipsandtricks.com, Jody explains the processes very well. Don’t be afraid to give it a try.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #22
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    "Don’t be afraid to give it a try."

    Don't need to be afraid. It's already broke, how much broker can it be?

    Vlad

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    I was going to say that.Cracked Motor End Bell Repair?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    so i was digging in the motor archive [and that' just some of them] that delco repulsion motor looks sort of like your end cap

    002.jpg003.jpg004.jpg

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    When you melt the sleeve bearing and find out they are unatemiam you know what broker is...Phil

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    My 1961 .44 ruger carbine was broke, the classic broken tab on the lower receiver.

    It’s been broke because the last 3 attempts resulted in broken more...

    It can happen, I say go for it but remember you CAN break it more lol.

    I think judging from the pics if you can line it up good enough you’ll be fine

  9. #27
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    1yesca,

    What brand of motor is that in the middle photo? The bell looks like the one on my motor which is a 3/4 Wagner motor.


    All, Many of you are probably wondering why am I even bothering with wanting to repair this motor. Why not just get a replacement, new or used?

    Primary reason is frugality. I'm, as was pointed out, a clumsy, old man living on the government dole, I.E. - Social Security. There is not a lot of discretionary income.

    Second, finding a 75U frame motor is going to be a bit difficult as they have not been made in many years.

    Third reason, a vintage lathe deserves a vintage motor.

    Thank you all for your continued assistance.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20200307_185112.jpg  

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladymere gr View Post
    1yesca,

    What brand of motor is that in the middle photo? The bell looks like the one on my motor which is a 3/4 Wagner motor.


    All, Many of you are probably wondering why am I even bothering with wanting to repair this motor. Why not just get a replacement, new or used?

    Primary reason is frugality. I'm, as was pointed out, a clumsy, old man living on the government dole, I.E. - Social Security. There is not a lot of discretionary income.

    Second, finding a 75U frame motor is going to be a bit difficult as they have not been made in many years.

    Third reason, a vintage lathe deserves a vintage motor.

    Thank you all for your continued assistance.
    We all know plenty about fixing vs replacing, I’d say go for it.
    The last old motor I took to my motor guy was a 1950’s era 1/8 hp fan motor.

    He had the exact vintage motor sitting on a shelf. I would call around some motor shops and see if they got one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladymere gr View Post
    1yesca,

    What brand of motor is that in the middle photo? The bell looks like the one on my motor which is a 3/4 Wagner motor.


    All, Many of you are probably wondering why am I even bothering with wanting to repair this motor. Why not just get a replacement, new or used?

    Primary reason is frugality. I'm, as was pointed out, a clumsy, old man living on the government dole, I.E. - Social Security. There is not a lot of discretionary income.

    Second, finding a 75U frame motor is going to be a bit difficult as they have not been made in many years.

    Third reason, a vintage lathe deserves a vintage motor.

    Thank you all for your continued assistance.
    hi its a delco motor mod A8040 1/2 hp 115 / 230 volt 1725 rpm frame 66 type IR its the type that has the lever you move to reveres it

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1yesca View Post
    hi its a delco motor mod A8040 1/2 hp 115 / 230 volt 1725 rpm frame 66 type IR its the type that has the lever you move to reveres it
    Thats a repulsion start induction run wound rotor motor.Just looking at it I would say it was not shipped with your machine.Thats an old motor.
    To weld that end housing it needs to be bolted to a stake bench/surface plate that has been cleaned up with a belt sander and checked with a precision straight edge. Windings that old could be damaged by the welding, they may have cotton covered wire in them, so you wouldn't want to weld it with it on the stator. There's only a few thou between the rotor and stator iron. I could ramble on,but small motors are cheap...

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    Sorry for sounding pessimistic in my first post. But I'm an old guy too, and of course,
    we all try to "fix it" first. That's the cheapest way to go...and I hope you can!

    But I've been down rabbit holes like these so many times before with usually questionable results,
    I now just bite the bullet, save myself a lot of wasted effort, and replace the darn thing.
    Nothing wrong with a used motor either except the price of shipping. Who knows, someone may want
    your broken one for parts!

    If you buy from Amazon or EPay or with CC, you can usually get low monthly payments instead of
    forking out a big dollop of cash. Just saying.
    Good luck, Sir!

    PMc

    fixit.jpg

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    Forgot to mention it but there are people who collect antique motors and that one is old. They will buy one to get parts. Look on those local things like craigs list,both for a replacement and for a home for that one.Im an old buzzard too 74 and always fixing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1yesca View Post
    so i was digging in the motor archive [and that' just some of them] that delco repulsion motor looks sort of like your end cap

    002.jpg003.jpg004.jpg
    so i dug a little deeper this is about 70% of what i have

    003.jpg004.jpg

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    Fellows,

    I want to thank you for you continued involvement in this thread.

    I have been practicing with my TIG welder trying to lay a good weld bead since my abelites suck.

    I received the TIG brazing rod I ordered yesterday. I don't' have any thin cast iron to practice on but I do have some heavier broken cast iron I will practice on first.

    I plan to try brazing this with the bell bolted to the motor frame and the armature in place. There is a lot of space, at least and inch, between the armature and the crack. I figure if I make small stitches around the crack perimeter, say 3/8", with a half inch to 3/4" between the stitches, letting the bell cool to room temperature between each stitch there shouldn't be anything damaged by heat. I guess I'll find out.

    Vlad

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  18. #35
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    And by doing so, you won't cause a large stress build up. If you can heat the whole thing up to about 85 F you will prevent any moisture condensation that could occur until your brazing brought it all up.

    Watching still....

    Pictures!

    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladymere gr View Post
    Fellows,

    I want to thank you for you continued involvement in this thread.

    I have been practicing with my TIG welder trying to lay a good weld bead since my abelites suck.

    I received the TIG brazing rod I ordered yesterday. I don't' have any thin cast iron to practice on but I do have some heavier broken cast iron I will practice on first.

    I plan to try brazing this with the bell bolted to the motor frame and the armature in place. There is a lot of space, at least and inch, between the armature and the crack. I figure if I make small stitches around the crack perimeter, say 3/8", with a half inch to 3/4" between the stitches, letting the bell cool to room temperature between each stitch there shouldn't be anything damaged by heat. I guess I'll find out.

    Vlad
    There are expensive goops sold for the purpose - used them all the time welding on joolry to protect the lesser gemstones.

    But cheap and common Plaster of Paris (Gypsum) is your friend.

    Bit of household 'loominum foil stuffed in to keep it out of the moving bits. Butter that. THIN.

    The plaster will set in mere minutes.

    Keeps the worst of the heat and essentially ALL of any flux, pops, or spatter outta the wiring area.

    Just crack it, break it up, and dig it out afterwards. I did say "thin?"

    Common household Vinegar dissolves it if yah need that.

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  21. #37
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    Well Fellows, my repairs have not gone well. I have the end bell tacked together but the shaft does not turn freely any more. Time to look for a replacement end bell or more than likely a replacement end bell.

    I want to thank all that responded to this thread with advice, positive or negative.

    Vlad

    P.S. - Iyesca, I am sending you a PM.

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    It's a long shot, but before you scrap it, slack the cover nuts a bit and rap the end bell with a wood mallet or a hammer handle.

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    jim rozen, Thank you for the suggestion. I removed the end bell for some reason and put it back on and found the shaft turned freely.

    Firstly though I wish to publicly acknowledge and thank 1yesca for the offer of trying to locate an end bell that would work for me in his "stash" of bad motors.

    I wanted to follow up on my repair attempt.

    My stitch brazing did not hold up and the casting abroke free on the original crack line.

    I tried stitching it again and also turned a stub so I could take the end bell off the motor and mount it on the stub and stitch braze the cracks from the inside of the bell. This seemed to work. The repair is ugly and I blew a hole through the casting at one point as I had the TIG welders current to high.

    I still don't know what I'm doing with this welder. It is one of the Chinese inverter units I bought used years ago. A three in one unit. TIG welder, stick welder and, my favorite, plasma cutter.


    Any way I did get the end bell stitched up but it was no longer round. One side was sitting high and the lip would not fit into the motor housing anymore. I mounted it on my lathe with the bad headstock bearings and using a cut off tool was able to "kiss" the lip on the high side and shave it down so the end bell could be reassembled.

    The motor reassembled OK, the shaft turned freely by hand and runs fine under power.



    Vladymere

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  25. #40
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    Glad it worked out for you - the instruction to basically 'hit it with a hammer' works especially well if one has had a small motor apart, the kind with spherical bronze sintered bearings (held inside a rivitted housing in the end of the motor) and the motor seems inextricably bound up when it goes back together. The shock of a mallet blow helps to align the bores of the two bearings to the axis of the armature.

    Usually it's not needed or applicable to larger motors like yours, but there's always a bit of clearance between a motor housing and the end bell of most motors. So if things don't line up quite right - hit it with a hammer!


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