Difference between 10L and 10R ? ? ?

I am new here, but this seems like the place to ask this question.

I recently bought an "estate" of machine tools for a price I couldn't turn down.
I picked up (what I thought was) a Heavy 10 lathe, a Sheldon horizontal mill,
and a South bend 7" shaper from one of my neighbors for $900 for the package.
the best part was the logistics of moving it all. It was about 350 feet from her garage to mine.

(I was looking for a better lathe to take the place of my 100 year old Barnes 13)
All of this stuff had been sitting without use for close to 10 years in a slightly damp garage,
but nothing was overly rusty. After a lot of cleaning, adjusting, and repairing it is all now up,
running and making chips! The man who owned it died at 96!

Now, on to the question at hand The lathe in question I thought was a 10L Heavy 10
with the underdriven cast iron pedestal base. (It looks like fish, it smells like fish, it can't be chicken)
The original chuck was totally shot and needed replacing with about 1/8" runout. I wanted a 6" reversable
top-jaw chuck anyway. When I checked the spindle thread, I found it to be 1 7/8"
instead of the "normal" 2 1/4". I then raised an eyebrow, scratched my head and headed
in to do a little research.

The model (catalog) number is CL-199-A and the S/N has RKR in it. According to the South bend site
This machine is a 10R and not a 10L. I cant find any difference between the 2 other than the smaller spindle.
Does anyone out there know what the difference is and/or what parts do/don't interchange?? (Major stuff)

One last thing that that really adds a giggle to the whole story! This lathe had about 25 coats of this thick
gloppy grey paint on it with all of the handles and bolt heads painted red. It kinda looked like a circus.
Also the compound had more crash marks than a car that lost a demolition derby. (now keep in mind that
the old geltleman that owned this stuff retired as a master tool and die maker!) I knew that he had bought
this stuff at an auction, but I didn't know where. Upon receiving the tooling that came with it, some of it
had my old high school engraved on it! I may well have run this machine 40 years ago! ! ! ! ! !

Thanks in advance!

Frank

I believe that all you need to do is replace the spindle with one from a 10L and you will have a 10L. I think the spindle is the only thing that is different. Someone please correct me it I am wrong. Gary P. Hansen

The original Heavy 10 was the 10R such as your CL-199-A. Later South Bend introduced the large spindle Heavy 10 catalog CL-187 known as the 10L. After which the 10R was referred to as "Regular" in sales literature where as the 10L was referred to as a "1 inch collet" lathe. Parts would be the same between the two with the exception of the headstock, spindle, and bearings at least if you're comparing similar vintage. We're talking about single tumbler gear box machines. Double tumbler gear box machines are a different animal. Even in later years one could special order a 1-7/8" spindle in a machine.

Edit: I see Gary posted before me. You can't transplant a spindle, you'd have to swap an entire headstock.

Thank you both!

It is definately heavy!!! But, here comes the fly in the ointment
The one I have has a double tumbler gearbox. What does that mean other than
different gears on the banjo and a different gear cover??

I kinda figured the headstock would be different as the bearing size seems to somewhat
match up to the spindle thread.

Frank

Mike is right. The headstock needs to be swapped out to accomodate the larger spindle.

Here's your lucky - this guy only wants $90 for this entire LARGE spindle headstock. Make him an offer and get your electrolysis tank ready. You can fix that up in NO time

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/f-s-older-10l-headstock-ugly-sin-242986/

I hate to disagree but you can just swap out the spindle, I know this because I did on mine. The only difference between the spindles is the bore the outside dimensions are exactly the same. I even used the same shims and got the the same tolerance between the two spindles.

Danny

All that being said I would still buy that headstock but I would just take the spindle out. If you swap out headstocks you would have to scrap the new headstock to mate it with your lathe. Also you could part out the rest of it on ebay and make most of you money back.

Danny

dannyrocci said:

I hate to disagree but you can just swap out the spindle, I know this because I did on mine. The only difference between the spindles is the bore the outside dimensions are exactly are the same. I even used the same shims and got the the same tolerance between the two spindles.

Danny

Click to expand...

Danny is correct. The 10" small bore and large bore spindles are interchangeable.
The 13" is not. It requires a whole different headstock and reverse bracket.
Ted

I guess I was correct after all. Gary P. Hansen

SBLatheman said:

Danny is correct. The 10" small bore and large bore spindles are interchangeable.
The 13" is not. It requires a whole different headstock and reverse bracket.
Ted

Click to expand...

Good to know, I learned something today.

Well..............as usual My questions usually stir up the proverbial hornet's nest. Many thanks to all that contributed to this thread. Looks like we all learned something.

Stuff like this is good to know, cause you never know what you may stumble over in your travels.

Thanks again, guys!

Frank

Well guys, I learned something. It is nice to know the large and small spindles are interchangable. I bought my 10L new directly from SB in 1980. It has the small spindle and it works just fine. I see no value in changing for the large one. In the 32 years I have owned this machine, a slightly larger spindle bore was never needed in my case.

steve-l said:

Well guys, I learned something. It is nice to know the large and small spindles are interchangable. I bought my 10L new directly from SB in 1980. It has the small spindle and it works just fine. I see no value in changing for the large one. In the 32 years I have owned this machine, a slightly larger spindle bore was never needed in my case.

Click to expand...

If your machine is a 1980, it is the large spindle.(it will pass a 1 3/8" diameter bar through the spindle)
Ted

Ted,
I don't know how I should reply to your comment. I found the original puchase paperwork. I stated I bought the machine new directly from SB and it came with the small spindle, but my memory is faulty. I purchased the machine by phone on Nov. 21 1984. The accuracy report is dated April 30, 1983. The serial number is 40763 k and the catalogue number is CL670R. The bed length is 54" overall and 41 from the chuck face. Please see the attached invoice.

hi steve-l,

you have a 10K - not at all related to the 10R or 10L other than the South Bend name. the 10K is essentially a 9" with a little extra swing, a 1/8" bigger spindle bore(about 7/8") and share most of the same parts. your machine should take 6K collets directly in the spindle without the need for an adapter.

Steve - not only are you comparing two completely different machines, but there is also no mention of spindle bore size? (unless I'm missing something)

OOPS, I stand corrected. Yes, I have a 10K.

So many questions answered. I love this place

garyphansen said:

I guess I was correct after all. Gary P. Hansen

Click to expand...

Reminds me of a mechanic I used to work with. He said he'd only been wrong once in his life and that was the time he thought he was wrong but he wasn't.