Got a South Bend in my garage... now what?

Hello everyone!

This is my first post on these forums. I'm currently an out of work welder who is very interested in machining. I'm also in the process of completing my backyard foundry.

I've been fond of old, quality, American machinery for quite some time, so when I found this gem on craigslist, and had my tax return money burning a hole in my pocket, I jumped on it. Bagged it for $400. I bought it from a gentleman who had purchased it from the Danbury Mint at least 15 years ago. It's been in his garage, seldom used since. He told me that it is a "student lathe". It seems to be very ruggedly built.

Serial Number: 165342 (91) I deduced from some info I found online that this was built in 1945. Shortly, I will order the serial number card from South Bend.

The ways appear to be in great condition. The screws seems to turn well. He did turn it on for me. It seemed to run quite smooth with no vibration. It is a 3 phase motor, so I will need to look into either getting a phase converter, or a single phase motor to bolt in.

I plan to do a full restoration on this machine, and afterwards, learn to use it, and hopefully make some useful parts.

I've been reading about machining and safety online, however my knowledge of the equipment is severely lacking, so I am really writing this post seeking guidance to the best approach to take with this machine. I respect American Iron, and don't want to dive in head first without having the proper knowledge.

I'm sure a good start would be an owners manual.

Also, I do have the motor housing door. I removed it for safe transit.

Edit: A friend will be bringing a dial indicator over so I can measure the spindle/chuck runout.

Hope you saved enough money for a camera. lol Really like the lathe, think it'll serve you well.You need a good camera so you can post the rebuild too everyone's pleasure. Also a picture with a question will get everyone on the same page.

tommie

The closest thing to a manual is" How To Run A Lathe" . You can find copies on e-bay. As far as a three phase converter goes, get a VFD- variable frequency drive. The one i got from www.automationdirect.com works great, no affiliation just satisfied.

Congratulations! I would suggest spending hours on this site reading! There is so much info to absorb. ALso threads here will take you to great sites like :

http://www.wswells.com/

This is a treasure trove of info, including a free copy of "HTRAL" How To Run A Lathe - South Bends owners manual.


Have fun!

bob

Check with your local VoTech school. Most have evening adult classes. That can give you a very good start, and exposure to more types of machine tools.

Search the general forum or all forums for recommended books. I buy mine from abe.com and have yet to pay more than $5 for all but one (machine shop trade secrets, which I got like new through abe for $25, usually goes for $55ish). If you have $100 for books, you might consider this, see Ed in Florida's post and mine: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php/advice-scraping-ways-197123.html

If you have trouble searching, try this in google:

books site:practicalmachinist.com

Or substitute books with appropriate keyword(s).

Most of all, enjoy your new OBSESSION!

Thanks for all the comments so far.

I have a 13x20, which is just a shorter version of the 13x40 on this site: http://home.roadrunner.com/~rcbattelle/lathe.html The information there is serving very well in understanding how this thing is put together.

I removed the 3 phase motor on there today. It appears that the original motor was swapped out a while ago. It also appears that somebody modified the motor mounting plate to fit the motor. A friend of mine might have a 1 HP single phase motor that will fit. If not, I do have a 1/2 HP motor that has the same mounting and shaft configuration as the motor I removed today.

I had a chance to do some further inspection. I did not notice it yesterday (dark garage where I purchased it) but one of the ways does have a chip right under the chuck. I'm assuming someone wasn't careful enough with chuck removal. This spot however, while unfortunate, won't seem to negatively affect the carriage operation.

I also noticed the oil cups for the spindle bearings ran dry, and have some dust and dirt in there. They seem to screw out, so I plan to remove them for cleaning, and will reinstall and add fresh oil.

My next course of action, I believe, will be to remove the carriage in order to fully clean up the ways and disassemble the whole carriage assembly.

I believe after doing all that, and fully lubricating the machine, in addition to levelling it, I should be able start doing some test runs, without damage to the machine, to see what she is capable of. I think it might be wise to try it out a little bit first before complete disassembly and restoration. Opinions?

I'm also having trouble deciding if I should put the lathe in my basement or garage as it's final resting place. The basement would be nice because I can run a de-humidifier, and is more comfortable year-round (mid atlantic) but it must be disassembled in order to get in or out. I will be staying in this house for a long time, probably forever.

I like the stable climate inside the house , the lathe does too .
Shudder at the thought of going out to the shed or garage and touching those cold handles . If you're going to move it , may as well put it where you want it .
Seems you'll be taking a lot of the weight off anyway . Sure looks stout . Congrats .

PeterJ said:

I like the stable climate inside the house , the lathe does too .
Shudder at the thought of going out to the shed or garage and touching those cold handles . If you're going to move it , may as well put it where you want it .
Seems you'll be taking a lot of the weight off anyway . Sure looks stout . Congrats .

Click to expand...

I can always run a dehumidifier in the basement. Also, I just realized the floor is a bit more level too.

It is stout. It's a 13"x20". They made these primarily for training purposes from what I understand. Has the same swing as the big boys without taking up near as much space. This will work to my advantage as I believe I'll be working with larger diameter objects more often then really long ones.

Also, since I will probably put this in the basement, that will mean I have more room for other equipment in the garage

My lathe has been out in the garage for 12 or 15 years. It is undamaged from the humidity, but it's a constant problem. I've become complacent a couple of times when I "put it away" and found the chuck and unprotected surfaces covered with a light coat of rust. Lucky the precision parts tend to be oily enough that that never happened. A wipe down with Mobil 1 keeps the tin worm at bay for at least a year, but it must be done at shutdown, or at least before the next humidity attack. Everything that is covered up seems to evade the dew, even if it's in an unsealed drawer. I would move it to the basement if that was a practical option. I used to have my shop split between the garage and the basement and it just didn't work out. It was great for doing bench work, most of the time it was just a big hassle. Temperature is not a problem for a garage. Easy to heat and cool. Moisture is a big problem, and potentially theft.

So I would definitely vote for the basement, if that's practical for your intended use. But if you are forced to split the shop between the basement and garage, I wouldn't bother. Just have to be sure to clean and wipe down, put stuff away and cover up what you can.

I am already used to a split shop. I do like to keep as much of the sensitive/valuable equipment in the basement as possible.

So far today, I removed the saddle and it's attachments, giving me complete access to the bed ways. After I finish my lunch I will clean them up nice and purty. From what I can tell so far, they certainly aren't in mint condition, but what damage (little) they have looks as though it should not interfere with carriage or tail stock operation.

I have a friend with a very good Nikon (and knows how to use it) stopping by this weekend, so I think I will get him to snap some photos for your viewing pleasure.

One question I have is, I noticed the retaining nut for the handle on the lead screw for the cross feed, requires a special tool. Looks like it needs 2 prongs, about a 1/2 inch apart or so to turn it properly. What sort of tool exactly do I need for this?

something like this?



If you measure the holes, I might have one I can give you. Photo might help too, as I don't have an SB yet. It's more like a screwdriver and the pins are in line with the handle. Under 1/2", more like 3/8", but I would have to measure.

To remove the nut, many folks notch a large screwdriver or a screwdriver bit. Below is the tool I made to adjust the clutch on an old Triumph motorcycle I once owned. It fit my 9" SB with only some minor shaping.

Tom

knudsen and flathead4, thanks for the info. I will get back to you knudsen about the distance, thanks very much for the offer.

I had a chance to bolt on the 1/2 HP single phase motor I had lying around to try and run the machine in my garage. I quickly learned this motor is underpowered, and isn't even capable of running the spindle (with chuck) on the fastest speed.

I had my infrared thermometer handy to measure the bearing temperatures. I ran the spindle on the 2 slowest speeds for about ten minutes with no problem. Once I moved the belt to the 2nd highest speed is when things got interesting.

The right bearing was happily holding a steady temperature of about 60 degrees F. The left bearing's temperature started to steadily increase, and after it started to get past 100F, I decided to pull the plug.

I measured the bearing clearances. The left came in at 0.0015" and the right at 0.0035". I read that the South Bend specifications is between 0.001" - 0.002". Since the left bearing is within spec, I'm going to assume that it is currently having a lubrication problem. As far as the right bearing goes, I'm sure removing one of the 0.002" shims will bring it into spec.

So, after some more research and preparation, I plan to remove the spindle to inspect the bearings and service the lubrication system. I will fully clean and paint the headstock before reassembly.

I've also decided that I'm going to go ahead and keep the machine in the garage. The milling machine that is supposed to come my way in the next year will have to be kept in the garage for size reasons, so I will have to deal with climate control issues anyway. Also, I really am not comfortable with the logistics involved in moving the lathe into the basement.

I decided to disassemble the chuck today. My, what a pain that was! Chips were in places I couldn't get to, and were making it difficult to remove the jaws.

I noticed, on the flange that was holding the chuck, which is stainless steel, that the portion that threads on the spindle is welded to the flange portion. Is this normal? I would think welding such a part would be a bad idea. Isn't a chuck flange supposed to be a cast, machined part?

(I have to admit, being a welder, whoever TIG'd this stainless steel flange really knows how to lay a pretty good bead.)

What is involved in removing and reinstalling the headstock casting from the lathe bed? I've been searching around and having a hard time finding any useful info.

I want to remove the headstock casting so I can do a proper cleaning and painting job. I see the casting sits on one the V ways, so I assume there is no special alignment procedure, except making sure everything is clean. Thoughts?

The headstock is held on by two bolts underneath. However, being an underdrive lathe, you have the belt to contend with. If the belt is held together with a clip no problem, but if it is a continuos belt you will have to cut it or remove the spindle. Other than that, you may have to rotate the gear train out of the way to get access to the bolt under the headstock.

You are correct in that the headstock is self-aligning on the ways. As long as you put back in the same spot, you'll be fine.

Tom

Well, since I'm planning on removing the spindle anyway, the belt won't be an issue. I also plan to remove the gearbox and everything else that attaches to the bed before unbolting the headstock, so I should have a rather simple procedure for removing the headstock.

I am really impressed with these forums. In the past week, I've learned more about lathes and machining from the posters here, and resources linked by them, then I could have possibly imagined... and I have yet to scratch the surface.

I am having loads of fun reading about these machines and working on the lathe. It is obvious that I have a new obsession. Similar to what happened after I brought my first welding machine home, I think I may see a new career path right now.

Good news! I found my digital camera, and after having been dropped in water about 2 years ago, seems to have dried up to the point it can take pictures again. I apologize in advance, it's not great at close-ups.

I will continue to take pics as work progresses. If you ladies and gentlemen would like pics of anything specific, don't hesitate to ask.

Here's a better picture of the lathe. As you can see, I've already removed some stuff.


Here's a picture of the damage on the ways. I don't think this will be an issue, since the saddle doesn't use that V way, and a tailstock or steady rest generally don't go that close to the headstock. I am unable to feel any ridges along the V ways the saddle runs on with my finger nail.


This is the rear of the cross feed. As you can see some idiot broke off some bolts. I'm assuming that's' for attaching some accessory/tool? If so, what?


Here's a picture of that welded chuck flange I was talking about earlier.

Back of the crosslide is threaded to accept a cover over the screw , or a taper attachment .

PeterJ said:

Back of the crosslide is threaded to accept a cover over the screw , or a taper attachment .

Click to expand...

I see. Does anybody have a picture of this cover?

Speaking of taper attachments, that is absolutely some tooling I plan on getting.