Heavy ten lube blues

macguyver6940 · Jan 5, 2021

Getting to the meat and potatoes of my SBL 10L rehab! All major sub-components are cleaned and painted, and I am going together with the project (photos will be posted in a new thread soon!).
I am getting to the point where the right lube needs to be put in to the right places in the right times.

From what I have learned, the way oil hasn't evolved over the years - many modern lathes still use the Vactra #2 (or similar) to date. I have that available from a buddy of mine!!

The QCGB and Apron oil was originally type B (ISO-32) but is appears that some have graduated to other modern lube methodologies. One thread I saw mentioned a cable and chain lube which claims to stick better. The main concern I have is that with an open gearbox; especially the QCGB, there will be oil puking all over the place using the OE oils.
Maybe someone has designed an oil pan for the QCGB or a modification to some version of Depends Garments??? More tenacious, self-sustaining lube would be the best solution here.

I read through the thread on SBL lubes, and It also mentions that "EVERYTHING ELSE should be lubed with Type C oil - that's fine mostly, but what specifically is "everything else"? Does this include the feed screws? the rack? Is the apron considered a "gearbox"?

I can't believe there are not any better solutions out there today! Is anybody breaking the rules with new nano-tech or other synthetic lubes out there?

Ranchman83 · Jan 5, 2021

Type C is for everything accept spindle bearings, aprons with a sump, and ways in the single tumbler lathe. I think double tumbler lathes use gearbox lube in the quick change. Post some pics!

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SLK001 · Jan 5, 2021

Your H10 utilizes a wick system to distribute the oil. Different oils may not wick as well - or at all - as the original (but I have no info saying yeah or nay).

Type "A" oil is only used in the sump lube systems (the headstock reservoirs and the carriage reservoir).

Type "B" oil is only used in the QCGB. The gearbox (the dual tumbler GB) utilizes wicks to distribute the oil to where it needs to go.

Type "C" goes everywhere else, except for the ways.

Modern oils existed during South Bend's existence and they saw no need to change their recommendations. Perhaps they knew something that we don't.

texasgeartrain · Jan 5, 2021

macguyver6940 said:
The main concern I have is that with an open gearbox; especially the QCGB, there will be oil puking all over the place using the OE oils.
Maybe someone has designed an oil pan for the QCGB or a modification to some version of Depends Garments??? More tenacious, self-sustaining lube would be the best solution here.

When you actually go to use the lathe, it will make a greater mess than you possibly imagine.

On the qcgb, when you shoot oil to the gits cups on both sides, it will slowly drip down and out, no escaping it, regardless which oil.

The spindle is maybe the only really special item requiring special oil due to tight tolerance, where a thin oil is needed. The rest of it type c, DTE heavy/medium is fine, its 20w oil, not too thick. Type B is kind of thin at 10w if I recall. There's no special magic metals, or crazy operational speeds that really justify multiple oils. You can always experiment and change oils if you're not particularly happy with whatever.

mcload · Jan 5, 2021

Yep, oil in; oil out...no escaping it.
I keep a small shop towel under the QCGB and everywhere else
it drips oil. But you should be concerned if there
are no leaks actually (lack of flow).
You would have thought someone would have designed some sort
of drip pan for the gearbox by now.

PMc

View attachment 309738

Dobermann · Jan 6, 2021

South Bend lathes are like my old Jaguar--if there isn't something leaking or dripping from somewhere, then something is out of oil! There's no way to avoid oil running, drooling, dripping from these lathes unless you don't oil it and don't use it. I keep a couple of paper towels in the vicinity of the headstock and QCGB to catch the excess oil so it doesn't make its way to the floor. (The soaked towels make great fire starters for the fireplace) This points to the futility of spending a great deal of time laboring and fretting over the paint job.

It's probably a good idea to use an oil which is close to the correct viscosity for the spindle bearings. For the rest of the machine it probably doesn't make much difference what you use so long as you use something.

Stampede · Jan 6, 2021

How do you guys feel about just using straight 20W motor oil, good-bad?

Thanks.

mattthemuppet · Jan 6, 2021

I would have thought that would be too thick for most stuff. Maybe lubing shafts/ gears in the apron if it's direct lube (not using wicks). I have some straight 10W motor oil that I use for lubing the spindle threads before spinning a chuck on, maybe the back gears if I'm being lazy. Hydraulic fluid is about the same money and a better fit for the spindle.

moonlight machine · Jan 6, 2021

mattthemuppet said:
I would have thought that would be too thick for most stuff. Maybe lubing shafts/ gears in the apron if it's direct lube (not using wicks). I have some straight 10W motor oil that I use for lubing the spindle threads before spinning a chuck on, maybe the back gears if I'm being lazy. Hydraulic fluid is about the same money and a better fit for the spindle.

You guys always get your panties in a twist about your little SB toys. Put something slippery in it and use it, oh yeah You can't use it you are busy painting it just the right color. Your "restoration" is in reality a paint job. did you grind the bed? did you scrape it. No it's still worn out but it has a new paint job and bonus it's the right color! Heavy 10? The tailstock on my L&S probably weighs more than a "heavy" 10. When was the last time your heavy 10 did a 40 hour week? That's when you need to worry about the "right" oil. Not much point in getting anal about a machine that gets used a few hours a month. I have a SB 16, I've had it 40 years, used the shit out of it for the first 20. I'll have it till I take a dirt nap, still use it once in a while. Then I bought a LeBlond Servo Shift Regal, 50x the lathe, it gets used every day and I have never painted it! OK sorry for the rant. Just do whatever floats your boat.

mattthemuppet · Jan 6, 2021

um ok, that was super informative, thanks.

I'll go stick some way oil in my car engine, after all it's slippery and I don't use the car to deliver pizza

duckfarmer27 · Jan 6, 2021

Two other places the type B oil is used is the back gears and cone pulley.

Dale

moonlight machine · Jan 7, 2021

mattthemuppet said:
um ok, that was super informative, thanks.

I'll go stick some way oil in my car engine, after all it's slippery and I don't use the car to deliver pizza

All I'm saying is you get way too worked up about it. I use shell Tellus 10 in my sb spindle, why you ask, because I got 10 gallons free. Whoever gets it when I kick off will get a lifetime supply even after I had a lifetime supply. I know I'm not supposed to but I use aerosol open gear lube on all the gears. Ya ya I'm not supposed to, but it lubes them and most important it quiets the racket they make. Everything else gets whatever is in the oil can that day.

Just a Sparky · Jan 7, 2021

Vactra 2, DTE medium, DTE light and Velocite 10. All you need unless your cone pulley is greased rather than oiled. Lube charts are sold with the oil on Ebay.

mattthemuppet · Jan 7, 2021

moonlight machine said:
All I'm saying is you get way too worked up about it. I use shell Tellus 10 in my sb spindle, why you ask, because I got 10 gallons free. Whoever gets it when I kick off will get a lifetime supply even after I had a lifetime supply. I know I'm not supposed to but I use aerosol open gear lube on all the gears. Ya ya I'm not supposed to, but it lubes them and most important it quiets the racket they make. Everything else gets whatever is in the oil can that day.

dude, look who's the one ranting to find out who's getting worked up about it. I couldn't give two shits what oil people use in their lathe/ car/ sex life, but if someone asks for advice on a public forum I'll give them what I think is the best advice I can. You can obviously do the same and then people can get a balanced view of the matter.

Going off on a rant about our little SB toys, how pointless painting lathes is, how heavy your big boy lathe tailstock is and how big your dick is really doesn't add a whole lot to the discussion does it?

chipss · Jan 7, 2021

moonlight machine said:
You guys always get your panties in a twist about your little SB toys. Put something slippery in it and use it, oh yeah You can't use it you are busy painting it just the right color. Your "restoration" is in reality a paint job. did you grind the bed? did you scrape it. No it's still worn out but it has a new paint job and bonus it's the right color! Heavy 10?

Gotta agree with this as there's a lot of proud Krylon overhauls detailed here and on other forums. A proper bed and saddle regrind would likely exceed the value of the machines. As a SB user, yeah, oil the thing with whacha got and run it. Just put the thin stuff in the spindle.
A guy I know runs the hell out of a 16" SB and has 'oh the horror' been using the cheapest ATF he can buy at walyworld in everything for maybe 30 years.

wood2steel · Feb 23, 2021

OK guys;
Here's the deal!
Use 10 weight spindle oil to be nice to those tight spindle bearings; every else on a SB will be happy with Mobil Heavy Medium . My mint 16" Tech school SB has never complained!!

wood2steel · Feb 23, 2021

Got to confess;
I run Heavy Medium in th SB , and both of the Lodge and Shipley hobby lathes; and now I'm suppose to use DTE 26 hydraulic in the 3--- square head 15" Leblonds that followed me home during the Corona virus;
Whats gives??

SLK001 · Feb 23, 2021

wood2steel said:
My mint 16" Tech school SB has never complained!!

Are you sure about that? I can hear them screaming all the way down here!

Just a Sparky · Feb 24, 2021

macguyver6940 said:
there will be oil puking all over the place using the OE oils.

Welcome to the joys of owning a South Bend lathe.

If it leaks oil, you know you've got a happy lathe. If it *doesn't* leak oil then you know where to lubricate.

80624-south-bend-lathe-oil-sbl_9inch_oil_chart_quick_change-small.jpg

pavt · Mar 3, 2021

Nah, it'll be ok

I use Mobil velocite in the spindle, Vactra on the ways, and DTE heavy on everything else. It works just fine. Only time I ever sprayed oil (on the wall) is when I over-oiled the counter shaft. In the future I may switch to STP for the ways because is so much thicker and "clings".

The entire area under my lathe and chip pan is gonna be owned by some mideast dictator and leased to Exxon by the time I pass. The gearbox and apron get oil until I see it dripping out, then I know I have enough.

1945 SB9A, doing very well for its age. It hits my number if I do my part.

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