Help wiring a Dayton motor SB9A
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Help wiring a Dayton motor SB9A

    Ok so I need a little help the South bend 9A that followed me home was overhauled not painted (although I should have but no space, I installed a South bend switch and got away from the floppy pole with a switch. I found 1 black wire taped off and the Green wire (Ground or Neutral) coming from the outlet wire, there are 6 black wires coming out of the motor. Also there are multiple wires in the wire nuts some have 3. I just want it wired properly. I wired the barrel switch as it came apart same with outlet plug, I replaced both the 6 conductor wire and the wire to the wall. I used very heavy gauge wire for both (what I could get). I will try to include pics and sorry for the terminology I am no electrician. How is this suppose to be wired correctly? It did run before.

    thumbnail-4-.jpgthumbnail-5-.jpgthumbnail-6-.jpgthumbnail.jpgthumbnail-3-.jpg
    Last edited by Shackelford R; 06-11-2021 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Adding info

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Here are the rest of thee pics.

    thumbnail-1-.jpgsb-9a-switch-wire-pic-2.jpgsb-9a-switch-wire-1.jpg
    Last edited by Shackelford R; 06-11-2021 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Pics

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    605
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    250
    Likes (Received)
    167

    Default Need Wire Numbers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shackelford R View Post
    Ok so I need a little help the South bend 9A that followed me home was overhauled not painted (although I should have but no space, I installed a South bend switch and got away from the floppy pole with a switch. I found 1 black wire taped off and the Green wire (Ground or Neutral) coming from the outlet wire, there are 6 black wires coming out of the motor. Also there are multiple wires in the wire nuts some have 3. I just want it wired properly. I wired the barrel switch as it came apart same with outlet plug, I replaced both the 6 conductor wire and the wire to the wall. I used very heavy gauge wire for both (what I could get). I will try to include pics and sorry for the terminology I am no electrician. How is this suppose to be wired correctly? It did run before.
    I am not an electrician nor an old-motor expert....that's a dark art for sure.
    But getting to the point, the wires coming out of the motor need to have a reference number, otherwise you don't have a clue as to what wire
    goes where (in the motor), and you therefore cannot correct it properly to a drum switch. You mention that it did run before, but was that with
    the "floppy pole" or your replacement SB switch? (I have no idea what a floppy pole switch is, not that it matters. Maybe just a household off/on switch?).

    Can you see ANY numbers whatsoever on the leads coming out of the motor? Sometimes they are imprinted on the wires themselves (first photo below).
    If there are no numbers whatsoever, then I think you might be sunk. Can you reconnect it to the switch that works? Generally speaking, if wire numbers are known, you can come up with the correct wiring on a drum switch. These are sometimes printed on a piece of paper on the inside cover of the switch.

    But without wire reference numbers I think you might be in for an uphill battle. The wiring colors on your rotary switch are purely arbitrary and mean nothing.
    My only suggestion is crack open the motor to see if the wires lead to an internal plate with numbers, then trace the wires back to the end with a VOM and
    mark each wire w/correct number. Better yet, run a new set of wires as I did on my old GE motor. (Second and third photo)
    Or you can wait around for someone with more experience (and patience) than me to answer your question.

    I'm guessing the Dayton is on the old side, and the rotary switch looks quite worn. If it were me, wanting to get the lathe up and running, I would invest in
    a new motor and a new rotary switch otherwise you might be in for quite a wait. (Unless you can reinstall the working switch). There are less expensive motors than Dayton or Baldoor. You can always save that motor and use it on another machine if you can get it running again.

    Before I drag home a used lathe (never again), I make damn sure the motor runs in both directions, then trace and identify each wire from the motor to the switch. Or cut wires on the other side of the nut so that a piece of the color jumper wire remains on the motor wire. Another issue with these old motors (like for my GE) is that barrel switches are no longer being made that will connect them properly.

    Good luck; sorry couldn't be more helpful.

    PMc

    dayton-motor-wires.jpg ge-motor-wire-template.jpg mtr-drum-wires-insulated.jpg

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    The floppy pole was just conduit sticking straight up from the motor to a Dayton drum switch.

    Only 3 wires coming out of the motor are marked The yellow wire nut on the left of back of the motor going to pink wire one is marked T2. the taped up wire is labeled P2 and the yellow wire nut right side bottom that comes from the power cord is labeled T4 I think its hard to read.

    I hope I don't have to tear the motor apart but if I do I do Its not that I mind its that I don't have much space to work in right now.

    I ran great I just hated the conduit and found the correct switch mount and switch for a price I couldn't pass up trying to neaten it up I guess and id feel better if it was grounded.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    605
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    250
    Likes (Received)
    167

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shackelford R View Post
    The floppy pole was just conduit sticking straight up from the motor to a Dayton drum switch.

    Only 3 wires coming out of the motor are marked The yellow wire nut on the left of back of the motor going to pink wire one is marked T2. the taped up wire is labeled P2 and the yellow wire nut right side bottom that comes from the power cord is labeled T4 I think its hard to read.

    I hope I don't have to tear the motor apart but if I do I do Its not that I mind its that I don't have much space to work in right now.

    I ran great I just hated the conduit and found the correct switch mount and switch for a price I couldn't pass up trying to neaten it up I guess and id feel better if it was grounded.
    Yes, grounding would be a GOOD thing. (as you already know) This usually comes from the ground at your power source, either from a plug or from a wiring box. I don't think any of the wires from the motor are ground. Easy enough to put a ring terminal on one end and bolt it down on one of the
    long motor chassis bolts. No clue about other wires.

    PMc

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Yeah I was wondering if it would make since that the green wire went to the black taped up wire but I don't think so. I'm just not familiar enough with AC and I want to be sure everything is ok when I install the new switch.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    415
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    170
    Likes (Received)
    166

    Default

    If you can't make out the lead markings then you might have to do some reverse engineering. Ohm it out, etc.



    Typical dual voltage, reversible capacitor-start motor with thermal protection.

    For 120V operation, both run windings and the start winding get connected in parallel with careful attention paid to magnetic polarity. One of the run windings will be in series with the thermal protector.

    Probably worth replacing that power cord while you're at it. Rubber-insulated conductors get crusty and nasty after a few decades. I'd bond the equipment ground to the motor frame by way of a ring terminal underneath one of it's stay-bolts. I've done old drum switches without grounding provisions by way of retrofit ground clips. Otherwise drill and tap a #10 hole if the switch housing is thick enough and use a green grounding screw. Might be worth installing a junction box for the power cord to hit, then branch off to the motor and switch respectively. Motor termination boxes aren't sized for splicing through. Any old deep '11B' with a blank cover will make your life easier. Some rolls of black, red, white and green MTW or THHN and a Brady label booklet will make things easier when it comes time to pull new wires to the switch and motor. Might need some 1/2" nonmetallic flex and connectors for the motor.

  8. Likes Yan Wo liked this post
  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Just traced all the wires coming out of the motor and found another marking. P2 was taped up, Pink,T3, and an unmarked were tired together with a yellow wire nut. Nothing at the black wire going to wall outlet. All I figured out so far. Its weird to me I remember in a 6 wire there would be 3 pairs but since this is 7 I'm kind of lost.

    T4 Green to T3 2.25 Ohms
    Gray to P2 .12 Ohms
    Pink to Gray 2.30 Ohms
    Pink to P2 2.30 Ohms

    Correct me if I'm wrong but my P2, Pink and gray are 1 coil with the overload?
    T4 and T3 are the other coil?
    So the Black from the wall outlet and T8are the capacitor but even when I reverse my meter Leeds I beeps for a second than nothing.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    415
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    170
    Likes (Received)
    166

    Default

    You might have an easier time tracing wires if you pull the rear end of the motor off. Usually that end houses the centrifugal switch and overload protector. That will at the very least allow you more points you can disconnect to further isolate each wire. Take pictures first. Be sure not to lose the bearing spacer washer if applicable.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I think I figured it out with the help of the diagram. the P2 is taped up and I am trying to figure out how to test the thermal protection if I even can.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    Is the thermal protection automatic or manual? Automatic protection is a bad idea on a machine tool.
    Doug

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I have No idea there is a number on the motor can be seen in the pic but I could not find the exact motor inline but I found one close from Dayton.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    So here is where I am at. Someone gave m e this diagram and the motor gowns or hums a little but if I turn the pullies it will go slow, I also tried another diagram I found somewhere here that is a mirror image but same thing. (mirror image means the switch sides were backwards). It worked before but not now so is the thermal protection bad and how do I test for that? and if it is can it be bypassed (maybe that's how it was)?

    120mot1xav.jpghsdiag1.jpg

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I found a way to test the protection switch according to what I read online I checked resistance of P1 and P2 and its suppose to go to 0 Ohms and it did not so I am going to sat its bad, which would explain the way it was wired. So now I am trying to bypass it. I wish I still had the pictures of the way it was in the motor but they did not save on my phone.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Its automatic (thought I put this earlier sorry).

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I'm still not having any luck. It spins but slow in one direction and faster in the other, I always here a pop before it gets to full speed (I figure this is the TP) and if its slow I can stop it by hand and if I give it a barely a tiny turn of the pulley it will spin in the opposite direction.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Ok, so I am not much further I have tested the TP with heat it tested good it lost continuity when it got hot. it seams to be ok in one direction but not another but also spins both ways if I stop it with my hand in forward, but in reverse it speeds up until it clicks or pops than it stops. I disconnected the TP or tried too but same issue.

    Here is a diagram of where I currently am. I will try again tomorrow. If it helps the switch is a South Bend Furnas R4.
    9a-wire-take-5-tp-bypass-.jpg

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    726
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    647
    Likes (Received)
    152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Sparky View Post
    You might have an easier time tracing wires if you pull the rear end of the motor off. Usually that end houses the centrifugal switch and overload protector. That will at the very least allow you more points you can disconnect to further isolate each wire. Take pictures first. Be sure not to lose the bearing spacer washer if applicable.
    or pull one of the wires off the start cap that would tell you what set of windings is the start as there would be continuity at that point . in other words ring the two wires at the start cap to match the two start coil wires but why as sparky has posted a diagram of your motor if the motor in your first post is your motor t5 and t8 are your start windings and if you are going to run your motor on 120 volts then you would have p2 and t3 connected to one another with p1[ being power in on one side of the run winding and t2 and t4 connected to one another being the other side of the power in on the run winding so you will have 4 wires from the motor windings . two from the start t5 /t4 and two from the run windings p1 /t2-t4 going to the drum switch and then there power in to the drum switch that can be at the switch or at the motor and run up to the switch but the power in connects directly to the switch not the motor it can come in at the motor and run up to the switch and then the power goes from the switch to the 4 wires to the start and run windings on the motor . and of course you have one added wire the green ground and some do it with one less wire if there running power in from the motor but i find it ez'er for me to run the extra wire . so kiss 4 wires from the motor two are the start and two are the run

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    1yesca so what your saying is it should look like this? 120mot1xav.jpg

    I only have 4 wires going from motor to the switch and 2 from the wall going to the switch.

    I also ran a ground from one of the external screws on the switch cover to the motor ground that I put on one of the screws that holds the wire cover plate on and from there it goes to the wall.

    I have a short video of it running the way it is trying to post.

    I apricate everyone patience with me as I am not a sparky nor do I profess to be but at least I am trying to learn this is my first complicated motor (well complicated for me). I know I'm close.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    726
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    647
    Likes (Received)
    152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shackelford R View Post
    1yesca so what your saying is it should look like this? 120mot1xav.jpg

    I only have 4 wires going from motor to the switch and 2 from the wall going to the switch.

    I also ran a ground from one of the external screws on the switch cover to the motor ground that I put on one of the screws that holds the wire cover plate on and from there it goes to the wall.

    I have a short video of it running the way it is trying to post.

    I apricate everyone patience with me as I am not a sparky nor do I profess to be but at least I am trying to learn this is my first complicated motor (well complicated for me). I know I'm close.
    if its the right switch [you say its a south bend switch is it made by furnas ? is there a wiring chart inside the cove ? if not there are some on line ] i think you got it so man the breakers [that what i would say as a kid when my dad would try to wire something ]and leter rip please do let us know . ok so i went on line and found this for the furnas you want to use the one on the upper right split phase i believe it will still work just fine the way you have it and if it works and its not tuning how you want rev the t5 and t8 with each other also if you get to the point that you think its wired right but the thrmo breaker keeps popping you can by pass that by using p2 t3 as a run winding instead of p1 and that will take the breaker out of the circuit but tell it starts right up in fow and rev i would leave it in


    drum-switch-wiring.jpg
    Last edited by 1yesca; 06-23-2021 at 10:23 AM.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •