Info on 10" South Bend auction find

shpxnvz · Jul 26, 2019

Hoping someone can shed some light on the model/serial? Was listed as a 10" but that's about all I know. Model number looks like CL199A and the serial is 10798RKR15. Will get some better pictures when I get it unloaded tomorrow. Thanks all.

naru · Jul 27, 2019

No expert, but my googlefu is decent.. Page 92, Post 913 of the thread "Serial Numbers Wanted" post a machine identified by Steve as a 199-A a few posts later in the thread, I'd start there and read any posts that mention it.

Per Steve's post:

From the picture this appears to be a five foot 10R, not a 10L, this lathe is a 1941 cast
base UMD, the chip pan does not appear to be original for a tool room(8199-B) lathe, so the
catalog number would be 199-B. South Bend called this lathe the 10 inch 11/16 collet lathe
because it had the smaller spindle installed, everything else was indentical to a 10L.
These are the starting "S" series lathes that ran for several decades. After the war, in
1946 Bronze shell bearings were added to the headstock.

Thanks for posting this, could you post a picture of the collet closer, this would have to be
a number 2 (collet) closer (say rare), as this lathe used the same collet as the older 11 inch lathe.

Steve

As far as information related to the S/N:

10798 - Should be somewhere between '55 and '60 for year of manufacture? I always suck at interpreting this database.. Specifically, 1959 I believe
R - 10L or 10R
K - Friction Clutch, QCGB, UMD
R - Regular (read smaller) spindle bore, standard swing
15 - I'm not sure

It would be lovely if the database was a separate page for each model of machine..

Have any other pictures of the machine? I keep looking at the top picture and my eyes keep getting drawn to that dark "streak" along the ways. It looks a bit like a wear groove. Make sure you oil that bad girl/boy before moving anything, she's/he's drier than the Sahara.

shpxnvz · Jul 27, 2019

Thanks, good find. Don't know why I didn't find anything searching for the model number. I just came across the Steve Wells site too which I think shows the RKR in the serial being a 10R.

Didn't have much time to look at it yet but the wear didn't seem too bad through the grime. Will get some better pictures once it's unloaded.

hsracer201 · Jul 27, 2019

Interesting that it appears to have a cam-style clutch on that era base. Not a combo you see often.

Ziggy2 · Jul 27, 2019

hsracer201 said:
Interesting that it appears to have a cam-style clutch on that era base. Not a combo you see often.

I don't think that is actually a clutch but a handle to lift the motor for changing between high and low speeds on the intermediate jack shaft.

The motor likely has two different sized pulleys and same with the intermediate jack shaft.

Handle has a linkage to motor base which is hinged.

Looks like a Heavy 10L.

hsracer201 · Jul 27, 2019

Ziggy2 said:
I don't think that is actually a clutch but a handle to lift the motor for changing between high and low speeds on the intermediate jack shaft.

The motor likely has two different sized pulleys and same with the intermediate jack shaft.

Handle has a linkage to motor base which is hinged.

Looks like a Heavy 10L.

The handle on the apron is a clutch. The handle on the cabinet is the belt tension lever.

old_dave · Jul 28, 2019

Per my _Serial Number Reference Book_, 11th edition, this was built in 1958. (I think the serial numbers given here for each year represent the first serial number for that year, if they are the last serial number for that year, then this was built in 1959.) I don't know when the cast iron base for the heavy 10 was discontinued. My 1966 South Bend catalogue does not show it. Also this 1966 catalogue shows the heavy 10 only available with the larger (to pass 1 3/8") spindle bore.

I see this has the wide range quick change gearbox, a plus.

David

m-lud · Jul 28, 2019

This page may help with the letters following the numbers on the serial no.
l couldn't decipher .

SBL Serial Number File

shpxnvz · Jul 28, 2019

Got the lathe unloaded and into the garage and got a little closer look at it and took some more pictures. I'm happy so far, haven't seen any damaged gear teeth and not a whole lot of wear on the ways, still a little flaking visible. Kind of surprised but everything is still pretty well lubricated, the headstock oilers were full, and everything moves freely.

The lathe came from a maintenance shop for a county school system a little north of here. Apparently it's been in storage since before any of the guys I talked to at the shop got there, and they weren't young guys. I don't think they've done lathe work in a real long time the way they were talking so I wonder how long ago it got put away.

I appreciate all the info you guys have posted so far. I have a couple more questions.

I want to get it wired up and running without tearing it apart too much if I can. Going to clean it up and run fresh oil through everything, but there's some rust on the spindle cone pulley and the underdrive pulley that I should probably take care of. Is there good way to do that without pulling the spindle or the drive?

I read through some threads on the 10R here and it seems that it can be converted to a 10L with a few parts but I'm not clear on exactly what needs to be changed out besides the spindle to make that happen?

shpxnvz · Jul 28, 2019

More pics...

shpxnvz · Jul 28, 2019

More...

naru · Jul 28, 2019

shpxnvz said:
Got the lathe unloaded and into the garage and got a little closer look at it and took some more pictures. I'm happy so far, haven't seen any damaged gear teeth and not a whole lot of wear on the ways, still a little flaking visible. Kind of surprised but everything is still pretty well lubricated, the headstock oilers were full, and everything moves freely.

The lathe came from a maintenance shop for a county school system a little north of here. Apparently it's been in storage since before any of the guys I talked to at the shop got there, and they weren't young guys. I don't think they've done lathe work in a real long time the way they were talking so I wonder how long ago it got put away.

I appreciate all the info you guys have posted so far. I have a couple more questions.

I want to get it wired up and running without tearing it apart too much if I can. Going to clean it up and run fresh oil through everything, but there's some rust on the spindle cone pulley and the underdrive pulley that I should probably take care of. Is there good way to do that without pulling the spindle or the drive?

I read through some threads on the 10R here and it seems that it can be converted to a 10L with a few parts but I'm not clear on exactly what needs to be changed out besides the spindle to make that happen?

View attachment 262113

View attachment 262114

View attachment 262115

View attachment 262116

View attachment 262117

Difference between 10L and 10R ? ? ?

Be advised that you'd need to swap t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶n̶t̶i̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶d̶s̶t̶o̶c̶k̶,̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ just the spindle. I kept reading the link for 2 posts and tada, shouldn't be very difficult to do. But I don't really see the need to do it unless you NEED the larger bore and even still 1.375" isn't a very big bore.. Just be happy with your 10R and maybe try and hunt down a taper attachment to fill out the machine. Your money will be better spent elsewhere.

iwananew10K · Jul 29, 2019

the only thing you need to do the swap is the spindle itself,as the external diminsions of the small and large spindle are the same(except the nose thread) all other parts are the same.

since 2 1/4-8 spindles are cheap(they pop up on eBay all the time)the swap will pay for itself in time and money saved because by using the large spindle you can use off the shelf backplates and goodies, plus you get 5C capacity too.....if it's a really nice machine under the grime(looks like it is) it may even appeal to you to lay out the cash for a D1-4 spindle if that's your thing.

m-lud · Jul 29, 2019

You done well. It looks like original paint and complete. A school maintenance shop may not have used it often. Light rust can clean up. On cleaning machined surfaces a razor blade shaves the bulk off pretty clean.
Not knowing a new members past experience with machinery I would like to say that it can hurt you fast and can be unforgiving.

South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints - How To Run A Lathe 55th Edition | VintageMachinery.org
South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints - How To Run A Lathe | VintageMachinery.org

South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
The SBL Workshop
There is a link in the stickey's and on Steve wells website to register your serial number to the serial number database.
You can also order a electronic copy of the original serial number data card for $25. Its of no real benefit other than to know build dates and features when it was new. I bought one for my lathe
Serial Card for South Bend Lathe - Grizzly.com

Here is what they look like.

019ae9ec542525ecb039911a37cb7b399e952b4e6d (4).jpg

Bad picture. There is a better example on S wells website.
Here is a copy of the same serial card I cleaned up on a photo art program. same card as above.

easier to read
edit: Messing with photos and screwing it up Smaller and harder to read !

sorry if I screwed up this thread.. We could use a photo practice page.

shpxnvz · Jul 29, 2019

Great thanks guys. Figured doing the 10L conversion would be worth it since I already have chucks for the 2-1/4" spindle and plenty of 5C collets. Not so much for this one. No rush though, I'll keep an eye on ebay and see if a good deal on a spindle eventually comes up.

Serial number card I'll have to think about. Hard to say if it's worth the $25.

The rust on the widebed 9" I got a few years back I was able to take care of mostly in the electrolysis tank since I had it all torn down anyways; it's a bit more difficult dealing with the rusted pulleys in place. I'll try a few things, just don't want to get oxide dust all over the rest of it.

iwananew10K · Jul 29, 2019

FWIW- the rust I see will remove easy, and the cone pulleys will derust themselves with use. Looks like just a surface thing.

shpxnvz · Jul 29, 2019

I got set up to get the lathe off it's pallet and came across a problem. Hoisting with a strap under the bed at the tailstock end the base lifts free of the foot. It looks like the bottom of the ear that stick down in the foot with the cross pins for the adjustment mechanism is broken off.

I did a little searching but haven't found a good parts diagram for the tailstock end bed foot. It looks a lot like this one so I think the broken piece is part of the foot itself rather than the bed (see last photo). I'll try to get a picture of it tomorrow. Does anyone know a part number or name for either the whole foot or just the broken piece? Or even better have a spare sitting around you can part with (unlikely I know)?

naru · Jul 29, 2019

shpxnvz said:
I got set up to get the lathe off it's pallet and came across a problem. Hoisting with a strap under the bed at the tailstock end the base lifts free of the foot. It looks like the bottom of the ear that stick down in the foot with the cross pins for the adjustment mechanism is broken off.

I did a little searching but haven't found a good parts diagram for the tailstock end bed foot. It looks a lot like this one so I think the broken piece is part of the foot itself rather than the bed (see last photo). I'll try to get a picture of it tomorrow. Does anyone know a part number or name for either the whole foot or just the broken piece? Or even better have a spare sitting around you can part with (unlikely I know)?

http://www.wswells.com/data/parts/920E.pdf

#19, P/N: PT8R1

tobnpr · Jul 30, 2019

I've de-rusted parts on machine tools using blue paper shop towels soaked in Evapo-Rust wrapped around them, then over with shrink wrap film to keep it from evaporating.

Info on 10" South Bend auction find

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Stainless

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Stainless

Attachments

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

Similar threads