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Knurling

Joined
May 23, 2013
Location
Naga City, Camarines Sur, Philippines
I expect to be knurling a few inches on a round bar-stock. I understand that I need to turn the stock's diameter to a size that is a multiple of the no. of TPI of the knurling tool I intend to use. My question is should I use the power feed on my lathe or should I use the leadscrew as if I'm threading? If so, what thread pitch should I set my lathe to? Thanks a lot for any help anyone can extend.
 
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The diameter of the work piece is not critical. Once the knurling starts forming the wheels, which are free-spinning, will find the pattern. One fellow on the Home Shop Machinist forum went so far as to knurl a tapered rod to prove the point.
 
I expect to be knurling a few inches on a round bar-stock. I understand that I need to turn the stock's diameter to a size that is a multiple of the no. of TPI of the knurling tool I intend to use. My question is should I use the power feed on my lathe or should I use the leadscrew as if I'm threading? If so, what thread pitch should I set my lathe to? Thanks a lot for any help anyone can extend.

I am new to machining. Currently working towards my Precision Machine degree thru a local community college. In my last class we had a project of making a center punch. We had to knurl part of it. We were taught using the power feed not the lead screw. They really didn't state whether the diameter of the stock made a difference. They emphasised not putting too much pressure on the knurl tool and once the tool touched the stock to keep in in contact with it until we were completely done or the patter would get messed up because it wuld be very hard to get the tool to find the same groves again.
 
It could depend on the size lathe you are working on. It is hard to bump knurl a coarse pattern on a light lathe, such as a SB9 or SB10K. Sometimes people reduce the width of the knurl for light lathes (grind the teeth off much of the width on a spindex or similar on a surface grinder). Another way is to cant the knurl slightly so it can penetrate more easily.

Having said that, I never had much luck with bump knurling on my 10K & second op Hardinges. But the scissors type works great for me.

As far as diameter, as others have said, it is not that critical, if the lathe is heavy enough to get deep penetration in only a few revolutions; or if a scissors type holder is used. If the knurls cannot be made to penetrate quickly, they may well tend to double and sometimes triple track. Feed the knurls in steadily, positively, and relatively quickly. Dwell briefly and back out.

I always set up a practice piece to get the knurl opening (on scissors type) and the stop or dial reading on the infeed. I have used the longitudinal feed (as opposed to lead screw) for longer knurls, but try to design parts so it is not necessary. There are many metals that will start to spall off the points (work harden and shed the knurl) if it is done with too much dwell. So a slow rotation, relatively heavy infeed, and relatively coarse longitudinal feed are wanted. But again, on smaller lathes not all of this may be possible. I avoid using the leadscrew in order to preserve accuracy for threading, and protect the half nuts from wear with the heavy knurling forces.

smt
 
On a manual lathe I always put a load on the knurling tool before I turn the spindle on. I then feed slowly and reverse the feed while still turning if need be. Don't back out until the knurl is where you want it. Knurling displaces the metal instead of cutting it.
 
I am new to machining. Currently working towards my Precision Machine degree thru a local community college. In my last class we had a project of making a center punch. We had to knurl part of it. We were taught using the power feed not the lead screw. They really didn't state whether the diameter of the stock made a difference. They emphasised not putting too much pressure on the knurl tool and once the tool touched the stock to keep in in contact with it until we were completely done or the patter would get messed up because it wuld be very hard to get the tool to find the same groves again.

Thanks a lot, ShawnRPrice. I'll try using the feeds-crew and will take note of keeping the knurling tool in contact with the stock until the knurl is done. I appreciate it so much.
 
It could depend on the size lathe you are working on. It is hard to bump knurl a coarse pattern on a light lathe, such as a SB9 or SB10K. Sometimes people reduce the width of the knurl for light lathes (grind the teeth off much of the width on a spindex or similar on a surface grinder). Another way is to cant the knurl slightly so it can penetrate more easily.

Having said that, I never had much luck with bump knurling on my 10K & second op Hardinges. But the scissors type works great for me.

As far as diameter, as others have said, it is not that critical, if the lathe is heavy enough to get deep penetration in only a few revolutions; or if a scissors type holder is used. If the knurls cannot be made to penetrate quickly, they may well tend to double and sometimes triple track. Feed the knurls in steadily, positively, and relatively quickly. Dwell briefly and back out.

I always set up a practice piece to get the knurl opening (on scissors type) and the stop or dial reading on the infeed. I have used the longitudinal feed (as opposed to lead screw) for longer knurls, but try to design parts so it is not necessary. There are many metals that will start to spall off the points (work harden and shed the knurl) if it is done with too much dwell. So a slow rotation, relatively heavy infeed, and relatively coarse longitudinal feed are wanted. But again, on smaller lathes not all of this may be possible. I avoid using the leadscrew in order to preserve accuracy for threading, and protect the half nuts from wear with the heavy knurling forces.

smt

Thanks a lot, stephen thomas. Although I have a Jet BD920 (BD9x20) lathe, I intend to be knurling on my Wurkton BL6230 lathe (940mm distance between centers). I'll keep in mind your tips re: feeding the knurl steadily, positively, and quickly. I'll use the feed screw (coarse feed) for longer knurls but will design parts with short knurls as much as possible. Thanks a lot again.
 
On a small, light machine, bump knurls will work but can be an exercise in frustration as the OD of part must be very precise in order to prevent the dreaded double track. Tool pressure is very high and I have seen machines broken in an effort to get enough tool pressure to prevent double tracking.
On the scissor type of tool, the pressures are contained within the tool and because they can achieve a deep impression on the first revolution, they are very forgiving and do not tend to double track.
With either type of tool, getting a deep impression BEFORE the completion of the first revolution will give you your best chance of success, the deeper the impression the better. Don’t forget to use oil.
BTW, Use of the wrong diameter on parts can greatly reduce the life of the knurl due to damaged teeth and wear from excessive slippage.
Have fun with it, Mike
 
I have a 10K and I do bump "knurling" on it. Really, it's more of a diamond engraving than real knurling. I built a follower out of roller bearings to help keep some of the stress off the jaws.

I'm looking at switching to a scissor type tool for it. Can anyone give recommendations on tools for it? Seems that the imports are in the $100 range and the good tools jump up to the $3-$400 range. Does anyone have experience with the cheaper ones on a small machine like this? I don't need a very deep impression on the part and it gets used on about 25-30 pieces every month or two.

Thanks,
v
 
I have a 10K and I do bump "knurling" on it. Really, it's more of a diamond engraving than real knurling. I built a follower out of roller bearings to help keep some of the stress off the jaws.

I'm looking at switching to a scissor type tool for it. Can anyone give recommendations on tools for it? Seems that the imports are in the $100 range and the good tools jump up to the $3-$400 range. Does anyone have experience with the cheaper ones on a small machine like this? I don't need a very deep impression on the part and it gets used on about 25-30 pieces every month or two.

Thanks,
v

These are my favorites.
 
On a small, light machine, bump knurls will work but can be an exercise in frustration as the OD of part must be very precise in order to prevent the dreaded double track. Tool pressure is very high and I have seen machines broken in an effort to get enough tool pressure to prevent double tracking.
On the scissor type of tool, the pressures are contained within the tool and because they can achieve a deep impression on the first revolution, they are very forgiving and do not tend to double track.
With either type of tool, getting a deep impression BEFORE the completion of the first revolution will give you your best chance of success, the deeper the impression the better. Don’t forget to use oil.
BTW, Use of the wrong diameter on parts can greatly reduce the life of the knurl due to damaged teeth and wear from excessive slippage.
Have fun with it, Mike



Thanks a lot, mf205i..! I'll keep that in mind.

AttyBong
 
I use a homemade scissor knurl. Don't pay too much attention to a specific diameter but I do pay attention to how the knurl starts. I use light pressure in teh beginning to make sure tracking is too my liking an I am not getting double knurls. I adjust the cross feed screw to make sure I am getting even pressure from both knurls. If not you end up with one knurl line with an apparent 'deeper' cut than the other. Starts to look like a barber pole or a helix.
Use the longitudinal power feed for the complete light impression. After the pattern is finished on the first impression I use the reverse feed (end gears) and tighten the scissor a little more. Normally no more than 2-3 passes to have a full knurl or what ever depth I desire.
I knurled 62 handles with a course knurl set and had a double knurl pattern on about 10 but was able to restart the knurl. I only had one I had to remove about 0.015-0.020" from the diameter and start again.
Oh and use plenty of cutting fluid to flush out the knurls and fine metals.
 
I use a homemade scissor knurl. Don't pay too much attention to a specific diameter but I do pay attention to how the knurl starts. I use light pressure in teh beginning to make sure tracking is too my liking an I am not getting double knurls. I adjust the cross feed screw to make sure I am getting even pressure from both knurls. If not you end up with one knurl line with an apparent 'deeper' cut than the other. Starts to look like a barber pole or a helix.
Use the longitudinal power feed for the complete light impression. After the pattern is finished on the first impression I use the reverse feed (end gears) and tighten the scissor a little more. Normally no more than 2-3 passes to have a full knurl or what ever depth I desire.
I knurled 62 handles with a course knurl set and had a double knurl pattern on about 10 but was able to restart the knurl. I only had one I had to remove about 0.015-0.020" from the diameter and start again.
Oh and use plenty of cutting fluid to flush out the knurls and fine metals.


Thanks a lot, mc_n_g Aluminum. You're tips are helpful.

AttyBong
 
I've found turning to the correct multiple of the pitch will certainly result in much better quality knurls and it also takes a lot less pressure. You can prove that by just lightly touching the part and stopping the lathe to look at the results, it's often a mess. If you keep pushing the tool in, the knurls will eventually slip enough and naturally find the correct pitch as they go deeper into the work. The knurl manufacturers also say it will increase the tool life, however I'll certainly never wear out a set of knurls, so can't comment on that.

One thing I didn't realise until I started experimenting with this was just how accurately the diameter needs to be hit to be "correct". I'd previously thought just near enough would be fine, in fact for perfect tracking on the first revolution you need to get the diameter exactly right. It's not difficult, and no different to any other turning operation, it's just that you need to take note of the correct figure and turn to it. If you take the trouble to do so the amount of pressure required to form a knurl is much less, and would certainly be a serious consideration for those using bump tools. You'll also obviously never have any issues with double tracking etc, as the correct pattern forms on the first revolution, as they go deeper they just "slip down" the partially formed knurl and quite quickly deform them to be larger, if that makes sense. It doesn't take too many turns to form good knurls this way, and then you should stop. Don't try to over-knurl the work.

Hope that all makes sense and helps.

Pete
 
Concerning the need to start at exactly the right diameter it is instructive to actually figure out the variation in diameter corresponding to a one "tooth" change in the number of serrations(?) around the circle. Hint :- its not very much.

Conventional, as opposed to cut, knurling is primarily a metal displacement process wherby metal is (sort of) squeezed sideways at the base of the knurl lifting the surface to form the tips. The nominally correct diameter giving a whole number of knurls per rev therefore corresponds to the base circle at the bottom of the knurl and would, theoretically, be too small for a starting diameter. The actual starting diameter ought to correspond to a point about half way up the knurl so the metal displaced from the lower portion equals that needed to form the tips. In practice knurling is a very forgiving process if you have sufficient rigidity in the system so things can gnerally be made to come out right. Which may involve inconvenient quantities of sharp, fine almost filings style chips if your start point is badly chosen.

On a lightweight lathe, such as the Soudthbend 9" and Heavy 10, I got best results with the three wheel nutcracker style hand held tool. No machine loading, self aligning and self feeding by simply applying a slight twist to the tool in the direction you wish it to go. Being hand held you can feel exactly what's going on. Double registration is quite distinctive.

These days I drive a Smart & Brown 1024, Heavy 10 size but weiging in at nearly 1 1/2 tons and vastly more rigid where it matters. The top slide is almost as large as the cross slide on a Southbend 16"! Even with this class of machine the common, inexpensive, self aligning two wheel push knurl devices sold into the home shop market can be a bit hit and miss. Even after re-working to ensure free movement of the self aligning pivot and careful attention to toolheight setting to ensure that the two knurls are at equal distances above and below centre height for a balanced feed doesn't invariably resolve the problem. in my experience the only tool of this general style that relaibly works well is a Pratt & Whitney branded one where the pivoting point is set rather lower than in the usual form. To use the upper knurl is set to centre height and bought up against the work whereupon it pivots lifting the lower knurl into engagement. Presumably the sequential nature of the tool engagement process is better behaved than the nominally simultaneous engagement of the usual form. Works a charm on the 1024 but I'd be chary of using it on any small SouthBend save, maybe, the taper turning telescopic cross-slide feedscrew Heavy 10 where the cross-slide feedscrew operates in tension and is considerably more reliable than the normal push screw when generating large forces.

I now have two scissor type knurls about the place, one monster massive, but have never needed to use them.

Clive
 
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