Lever Collet Closer removal

I have just acquired a 1930's South Bend 9A with a lever collet closer. I don't know how to take the thing off. I could guess but don't want to screw anything up. I looked for a youtube video or something but couldn't find one. Any help would be appreciated.

A picture of what you have would be helpful.

Tom

I think it's beautiful little machine but it needs to be tightened up. The carriage and slide seem a bit looser than I think they should be. I'd like to put the chucks on it and see how true they run. Right now I don't even know how tho change the collets since I've never had a collet system before.

DanMerrick said:

I think it's beautiful little machine but it needs to be tightened up. The carriage and slide seem a bit looser than I think they should be. I'd like to put the chucks on it and see how true they run. Right now I don't even know how tho change the collets since I've never had a collet system before.

Click to expand...

If you look at the other collets, you will see they are threaded at the end. The first thing to do is to unscrew the collet from the draw tube by
turning the end piece CCW. (If the collet is already loose, you can unscrew it by hand from the front of spindle).

When the collet is out, unscrew the thread protector to push out the spindle adaptor. There is usually a spanner tool
that locks into a hole on the protector to help push out the adapter. (I think I see it in your photo).
If you don't have it, find a bolt or end of a drill chuck key that fits into the hole, and bump it with a soft mallet. Withdraw the tube.

Since I don't own a collet closer like that, I'm not entirely sure how that assembly comes off the machine, but it can't be too hard
to figure out.

PMc

View attachment 323931

1) remove any collet that is in the spindle by turning the drawbar handle CCW viewed from the end of the lathe.

2) remove the pin that ties the yoke of the closer (backside) to the link that extends from the headstock pin.

3) entire closer assembly should slide out to the left.

4) use a pin wrench to back out the spindle thread protector until it bumps the collet adapter sleeve, alternatively
get a piece of stock that just fits inside the spindle, and use that to knock out the adapter from inside.

Hi Dan, you could also consider getting one of these and you would have collets and a scroll chuck, (collets are very handy):Buy Drill Bit Cases & Cabinets
Jim

It's strange that you have a Model A lathe with a Model C apron.

It also looks like your closer is the newer version, or not period to your lathe (most of it).

Here's an assembly drawing of the closer:

Thanks everybody, all of this helps. I think what was making me nervous is that the collet is tight and won't unscrew by hand and I didn't want to force anything. I'll give it a little persuasion and see if it comes loose.

Ah, sorry! Your closer is one of the few that has the pin still in it!

That means you need to slack the setscrew that's visible on the exterior of the knurled knob so the one part of the knob that you want to loosen can turn with respect to the other part of knob, to remove the collet.

Most setups like this have that pin removed - this suggests your machine may have done real production in a former life.

From the diagram above, you remove screw 31 and then slide the closer out of the spindle. Item 32 stays on the headstock.

Interesting lathe. Two things stick out to me. First. Someone added top oilers to a side oiler head stock. Probably worth pulling that apart and inspecting and see what's going on with that and replace felts.

Second. The lathe bed was originally a B or C lathe. Someone added the qcgb after. I dont see the third mounting screw on the right side of the qcgb in the bed.


My closer also still has that guide pin intact!

There has been some progress. i got the collet out, removed the knockout nut (21) and the sleeve (24) but the hollow drawbar (12) does not pull out. I took the yoke lever off completely and even took out the pin (10) but the draw bar refuses to pull out. It does jiggle back and forth a little but hits a solid stop. There must be a pin or set screw someplace. I'd like to get the closer off so I can use the full diameter of the spindle through hole. At least with the knockout nut off, I can try out the two chucks that came with it.

Looks like someone cut your end gear guard into 2 pieces? To open the lower while the closer is on?

There is supposed to be a drive lug on the spindle that engages with the closer. It would be under that sidecover. Can you pass a piece of round stock through the hole on the closer all of the way to the front of the spindle? I wonder if the closer is pinned to the spindle holding it place.

There is a part that is pressed (lightly) onto the spindle. It should slide off with minimal force. Put a collet in the end of the closer and engage about 2 or 3 turns. Tap the end of the collet with a mallet and see if you can the tube back enough to loosen the press.

Peculiar. I am guessing one of three events is going on:

1) the former owner made a deliberate modification to keep the drawbar from sliding out of the spindle. Hence the split gear cover.

2) the closer is somehow inadvertantly jammed onto the spindle, and the split cover was an unrelated modification.

3) former owner was unhappy about the collet closer setup wobbling around in use (they do tend to do that a bit) and fitted some kind of sleeve to tighten up the fit.

I think the best approach right now, short of using a knock-out bar from the right side, is to attempt to image what's going on inside the upper part of the gear cover. (of course, try the soft mallet on a collet threaded into the drawbar, lightly, first) How is the upper cover fixed so it does not fall down on top of the collet closer? There should be a single pin protruding from the smooth part of the spindle (outboard of the drive gear on the spindle) that the *slot* on the collet closer slides over. You can see the slot in out of your former photos, where end of the slot is visible outside the gear cover. If you look in there you should see the pin.

It's possible there's been a screw or other attachment mechanism put in instead of just that pin.

If the drawbar can rotate slightly (slack between pin on spindle and slot) that means it's set up properly. If there is zero rotational slack that means something else is going on. You say the drawbar can move laterally a small amount - about how far does it move right to left before it hangs up, and does it hang up hard when it stops?

I fooled around with it for a while again today and I can't figure out what is holding the drawbar in. The drawbar moves freely about 1/10" and hits a solid stop. This 1/10 is also all that the colett will move when installed. It feels like there is a mechanical stop but I cannot see where it is. I've inspected the pulley cone, the nose and the tail where the gears are and can't see anything. The gear cover has been cut but the top part is free to flop about so it is easy to look under it. The only reason that I can see for cutting the cover is that you can open it with the drawbar in place - a really great feature since I can't get the drawbar out.

I also took the oilers off to see if there was a set screw or pin under them but there isn't.

DanMerrick said:

I fooled around with it for a while again today and I can't figure out what is holding the drawbar in. The drawbar moves freely about 1/10" and hits a solid stop. This 1/10 is also all that the colett will move when installed. It feels like there is a mechanical stop but I cannot see where it is. I've inspected the pulley cone, the nose and the tail where the gears are and can't see anything. The gear cover has been cut but the top part is free to flop about so it is easy to look under it. The only reason that I can see for cutting the cover is that you can open it with the drawbar in place - a really great feature since I can't get the drawbar out.

I also took the oilers off to see if there was a set screw or pin under them but there isn't.

Click to expand...

Just a wild guess, but have to backed off the two oilers? They don't look stock OEM.

PMc

SLK001 said:

It also looks like your closer is the newer version, or not period to your lathe (most of it).

Here's an assembly drawing of the closer:

Click to expand...

Can you unscrew part #9 from the #12 tube? If so will it push out the front side of the spindle or will the collars prevent that?

Remove the collet from the spindle.
Remove screw no. 31
Rotate the lever so one of its ears aligns with the link 32.
Use the lever to pry against the link to pull the assembly off the spindle.

That works on my 10K.

I want to thank you all for the help. I did finally get it apart. The last problem to overcome was how tight the fit onto the back end of the spindle was. Once enough force was applied, it it came off. I hate forcing things so perhaps I was a bit timid.