Lubrication 101

SteveinLA · Dec 30, 2020

Hi Guys,
I don't understand the procedure for lubing the back gear shaft and cone pulley. I also don't understand the lubricant type. It says "oil", but there is a recommendation to use grease. Through that wee teeny hole? How much? Hmmm.

I found a video by Mick Finch of Bluechipmachineshop channel on youtube, but I'm still confused. Mick refers to Roy Dean grease that is out of production. Hmmm.

Which lube do you you use? How do you install it? Do you ever clean out the old lube? If so, how?

I tried using the search feature, but it just said, "sorry, no matches found". Again, Hmmm.

Thanks in advance
R, Steve

texasgeartrain · Dec 30, 2020

Some lubes from the time period don't really exist now. On back gear shaft I think you're fine with either oil or grease. If grease, install a grease fitting. If oil, use DTE heavy/medium.

Cone pulley I'd use oil, DTE heavy/medium again, in fact DTE heavy/medium is not a bad choice for everything except spindle.

SLK001 · Dec 30, 2020

Use only oil (Type C). The grease that was once used there is NO LONGER AVAILABLE. Also, no equivalent substitute exists today.

As for procedure, remove the plugs and fill the reservoirs with oil when you use the back gears (it doesn't take much - I use a syringe with a large needle to avoid the vapor lock that can occur). If you're not using the back gears, the parts that need the oil don't move relative to each other, so there is no need to put oil in.

SLK001 · Dec 30, 2020

SteveinLA said:
Do you ever clean out the old lube?

The cone pulleys are a flow-thru lubrication system, so there isn't any "old lube" to clean out.

jim rozen · Dec 30, 2020

SLK001 said:
The cone pulleys are a flow-thru lubrication system, so there isn't any "old lube" to clean out.

UNLESS some former owner (dave sobel's assistant) pumps the cone pulley bearing full of long fiber wheel bearing grease. Locks that
sucker up like it was *welded* on.

Took a few weeks of pumping ATF into there to get it to finally loose up.

Think long and hard, LONG and hard before you pick up a grease gun around that fitting.

SLK001 · Dec 30, 2020

jim rozen said:
Took a few weeks of pumping ATF into there to get it to finally loose up.

Think long and hard, LONG and hard before you pick up a grease gun around that fitting.

Amen to that. Sometimes it is really, really hard to fix stupid.

SteveinLA · Dec 30, 2020

I love the internet!!!
Greetings gentlemen, thank you. I have added oil to those journals on several occasions in years past; 30wt? I didn't know how much to add, so I didn't add much. Pumping grease through that tiny hole in the cone gear just didn't seem right to me. But remember, they'll sell a lathe to anyone. Ha Ha! I do use the back gears for threading, knurling, and when using a parting tool.

What do you guys think of using chainsaw bar and chain oil as a substitute for way oil? It's sticky like what way oil is supposed to be.

I found two videos on youtube by Tubalcain (mrpete222), Tips # 341 and 342 "types of oils for south bend lathes" that was helpful.

I removed the tail stock quill locking lever and the lock nut/handle for the telescoping taper attachment and removed the paint from them with a wire wheel. Somebody had painted over that brown rust patina. I'm going to work on this machine a little more. I guess I'm trying to say thanks for the encouragement.

I am quite fortunate to have such a nice old lathe. Quite fortunate to have you guys too.

Thank you
R, Steve

texasgeartrain · Dec 31, 2020

SteveinLA said:
What do you guys think of using chainsaw bar and chain oil as a substitute for way oil? It's sticky like what way oil is supposed to be.

Using chainsaw lube on the gears in qcgb, end of headstock is ok. Not ok on ways. The ways will see more chips and fine particles. You dont want that sticking.

Way oil hangs around a little longer than regular oil, but its not what I would actually call sticky. If you're using the lathe everyday, I might use way oil, its a little bit heavier, and somewhat like gear oil.

If you're not using it everyday, I might use something cleaner like the DTE heavy/medium, which will simplify the types of oil you're buying.

SLK001 · Dec 31, 2020

Why don't you just use the recommended oils? It's not as if they aren't readily available.

SteveinLA · Dec 31, 2020

That's a good question SLK. DTE medium...$1000 for 55 1 gallons, $100 for 5 gallons, $100 for 1 gallon, and $8 for 1 ounce. Hmmm. There's got to be proper, quality lubricants that I can buy, by the quart, for less than $10. I ask about bar oil because I already have it sitting on the shelf.

A oil is 10wt, B oil is 20wt, and C oil is 30wt. What's wrong with looking for plain Jane non-detergent machine oil?

I don't know about you, but 2020 has been lousy; complete with wage cuts. I'm grateful to have a job at all. Fancy lubricants with a south bend name on the label aren't on the menu. There are many guys who have been lubing their machines with 30wt motor oil and don't see anything wrong with that. Clearly proper viscosity, non-detergent oil is a must.

Forgive me SLK, we have given up a lot this year. The virus is real. So is the scam. I hope you are all doing well through this "reset".
Thank you for the help and encouragement.
R, Steve

SLK001 · Jan 1, 2021

A couple of years ago, I purchased gallon jugs of each of the recommended oil. Surely out in LA, there are outfits that sell these oils. MSC has them for mail order by the gallon - so does McMaster-Carr. MSC has a location or two in LA. You could probably order the oil by the gallon and just pick it up at the location. McMaster-Carr also has a location in LA (Santa Fe Springs).

Give your local retail outlets a try - they might even have most of them in stock (all of the recommended oils are still widely used).

Oh, and NONE of the recommended oils have a South Bend name on them.

texasgeartrain · Jan 1, 2021

SteveinLA said:
A oil is 10wt, B oil is 20wt, and C oil is 30wt. What's wrong with looking for plain Jane non-detergent machine oil?

A oil, spindle oil that is, is listed as #10 spindle oil, but its not 10w or 10 weight, its thinner than that. B oil is 10 weight. C oil, DTE heavy/medium is 20w. Specs on DTE heavy medium:
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00265462

I use ATF for spindle oil on South Bends no problem. You could use it for the rest too and change it later if need be. Or run a non detergent motor on the rest. Primary is clean and some kind of lube.

If you want more info on oils, I wrote some stuff up here:
Need some encouragement

texasgeartrain · Jan 1, 2021

Forrest Addy said:
Repeating the mantra - any oil is better than no oil. In a pinch, use anything that's close and replace it when you can find the right stuff. Machine tools don't explode like a Star Trek control panel if you use slightly the wrong oil. Just trying to de-fuse what I preceived to be rising contention.

My last extremity machine tool oil is hydrauic oil then pukey red ATF. Both work well with clutches and seals of all descriptions. Both as oil change residues are non-harmful to most replacement oils. Both are available everywhere in the world except maybe up jungle rivers.

This does not answer the OP question. I suggest the Mobil website - like here:

Mobil DTE Oil Named Series

Mobil DTE 20 Series

I quoted that from 2012 here:
What is the difference between Mobil DTE Light and Mobile DTE 24?

The PM member, Forrest Addy, is a really respected member. Pretty well known not just as a machinist in his hay-day, but in rebuilding and reconditioning. The lines cracked me up when I read them

. Took me a bit of searching to re-find that.

mcruff · Jan 1, 2021

For the spindle Mobil Velocite no 10, the backgear gets Super Lube synthetic grease.
#2 way oil for the bed and a modern machine oil equivalent for the B oil, somewhere there is a saebolt oil viscosity chart that converts to ISO that lets you cross reference these oils to modern equivalents. It may even be in the South bend lathe book.
I have been running these for 16-17 years in my machine which is used a lot. This is also in a 1942 Workshop 9 that was used in production for way more than 30 years.

SteveinLA · Jan 2, 2021

Thank You to all who are contributing to my education.

I believe that ATF is a 20wt oil with lots of anti-foaming agents, lots of detergents, and some red dye. So, if spindle oil is not supposed to have detergents, that keep abrasive particles in suspension, then maybe it isn't the best choice for spindle oil. However, if it has been working for you as a spindle oil, great! (Don't mess with success!)

I have read some of what has been posted about DTE oils, Something about DTE being developed for robotic equipment. Modern industrial robots do not sound similar to an old South Bend lathe. I would think my 10L has more in common with the driveline of an old Power Wagon. (Yes, I'm half joking about that. I don't think old trucks use 10wt in anything.)

I don't use this machine much. The good news is that it has had lubrication from the first time I turned it on. I have also replaced parts that were missing or not there to start with ...like the thread dial, and micrometer carriage stop, the thumb screw for the compound dial. I want it to be better for the next guy who gets it; my son, or whoever.

I have, and still am, working on preventing my lathe from falling over in our next major earthquake. Heavy machines that were bolted to the floor here sheared their mounts in the 1994 Northridge quake. That was impressive!

Oh, some guys have plastic bottles that have a South Bend logo on them. That's what I was referring to as being South Bend oil.

Thank You
R, Steve

SLK001 · Jan 2, 2021

SteveinLA said:
Oh, some guys have plastic bottles that have a South Bend logo on them. That's what I was referring to as being South Bend oil.

There is a seller on ebay who sells those bottles. It's a fairly cheap way to get small quantities of the recommended oils, but it is also the highest cost/ounce. I must admit that I have a set that I refill with my gallon containers.

tobnpr · Jan 2, 2021

SLK001 said:
Why don't you just use the recommended oils? It's not as if they aren't readily available.

To each their own..
But remember, they didn't have the current technologies and lubricants 70 years ago that they have now

, just sayin'...

Viscosity and tackifiers (or lack of them)is important dependent on application.

But I've never looked back since using spray-on chain lube in areas not subject to swarf. Drive gears ("C" oil slings off in a matter of hours), rack (good luck trying to oil the underside of the rack any other way, and some of the back of the apron that's really not accessible any other way.

SteveinLA · Jan 3, 2021

Greetings tobnpr,
Are you speaking of spray-on bicycle chain lube? That sounds like a good idea.

I have this old Roto-Hoe Chip N' Shred chipper that I use to process yard cuttings. It has an idler wheel for the belt drive that looks like it is made out of stamped sheet metal. There is not any provision for lubrication. So, I use spray white lithium grease by the Blaster company. That works well. It's thicker than the 3-in-one brand.

This makes me wonder how many other oils, or other lubricants, are being used? Sing out guys. I'm open to new and different ideas.

Thank you
R, Steve
p.s. SLK, I imagine you have a South Bend hat too. (I mean that in good cheer!)

tobnpr · Jan 3, 2021

This is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Maxima-77920...ds=spray+on+chain+lube&qid=1609688681&sr=8-17

Personally, I wouldn't use any type of grease. This stuff will mostly run off- but it takes several days. I do want to use a lube that will eventually run off along with any contaminants, and I've found this is a good compromise between machine oil, and heavier grease lubricants.

JMO...

woodchuckNJ · Jan 3, 2021

Steve, I made the mistake of following the current recommendation of grease on the cone pulley.
The head locked up after a long session. After it cooled down, it was free.
I took the spindle apart, and checked, she was ok, cleaned it out, and tried super lube this time... same thing.

I had noticed that everything was fine when I put it together, just once I greased it, it failed.

When I assembled I had used teflon and it was beautiful. it was once it was gone that I added the grease.

I took it apart again and now use spindle oil. The spindle oil has never let me down. I don't know why there is a recommendation for grease, in my experience grease does not work. I blame it on the ability to spread out and get where needed.

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