missing pieces and issues with my mystery collet closer

i recently acquired a south bend heavy 10, and realized that a collet closer that i randomly bought at a flea market years ago was apparently a perfect fit for it. unfortunately, seems like maybe there's something wrong and possibly some pieces missing.
i included two pics below for reference. in photo 1, the arrow labeled A points to the pin that engages when lever is closed and B points to collet tube that collet threads into. in photo 2 C points to knurled handle that is attached to collet draw tube and D points to collet draw tube where there is a woodruff key slot.

seems like there was supposed to be some kind of collar with woodruff key which i do not have?
basically i cannot figure out how this thing works. seems like the part of the closer that is labeled D in second
photo with woodruff slot should be able to spin when lever is thrown and pin engaged? because otherwise the spindle would be spinning against its shoulder, and seems like it was meant the be driven by spindle via the woodruff key? but the only part that seems to spin freely is the collet draw tube. i have no idea how these function internally, no huge loss as i think i only paid like $10 dollars for the thing at the time cause the guy didnt know if it worked or what lathe it went to. thanks for the help. i also included a link to a google photos album which includes the two photos of the closer as well in case the attachments dont work or are not large enough to see. thanks




South bend rebuild - Google Photos

It's not a collar, but an extended gear that presses onto the spindle. The end of the collet closer then is light pressed into the extended gear.

Go here to get a .PDF of the collet closer that you have. (PM doesn't allow .pdfs greater than 17k??)

The files are in post #10 and #13.

thank you, that appears to be precisely the info that i was looking for. sounds like kinda a PITA to get a hold of that gear i need and install it... i did see that grizzly still had some parts for these lathes, i think mine is about a 1970 model so maybe i should see if i can source parts from them. i think making the gear myself is beyond the reach of my abilities or tooling at the moment,

People have operated the collet closer WITHOUT the special gear. In fact, the person starting that thread was operating quite well without that gear. See the pics further down the thread and you'll see what I mean.

i did check the posting and contacted the original poster, unless i somehow completely mis-understood him, he said that the clutch mechanism in the closer wont work without the special gear installed on spindle. mine doesnt really seem to rotate in the way that it seems like it should, the draw tube rotates, which allows you to tighten the collet, but then with the lever closed, if the pin on the lever is engaged with the knurled knob it is completely locked up, nothing seems to rotate.
then theres the matter of the spindle spinning against the face the shoulder on the collet closer, which is supposed to be driven by the woodruff key which would be in the special spindle gear. so it really does not seem to me like there is any way that this thing could work without the spindle gear that it was designed to work with. also i have a feeling that the clutch mechanism could be seized up? as there is nothing else that will rotate independently of anything else aside from the draw tube. throwing the closer lever doesnt seem to change anything. would be nice to see one that is set up and working. thanks for the info.

The closer is supposed to be a light press fit into the spindle - it should rotate WITH the spindle. If your attempts to obtain the correct gear, you could make a sleeve that accomplishes the same thing.

Look at the assy drawing of the closer. Are you missing any parts? Did you disassemble everything to clean, lube and to check for broken parts?

You are missing the woodruff key, not much else. The gear that replaces the standard short gear has
an ID bore with a keyway to pick up on that.

The pin you have is often missing in high mileage closers.

The pin allows one to set the lockup tension on any given collet in the spindle. Changing it requires the
setscrwe on the one knob to be slacked so the two knurled knobs can be rotated with respect to each other.

Unless you are doing reptitive manufacturing work, it is best to remove that pin and simply lock the two
knurled knobs to each other at any orientation. I find that starting and stopping the spindle to change
parts when running the closer this way requires an occasional tweak to the collet tension, but this is not
objectionable because I can change collets without fooling with that setscrew.

In the past I had actually put a pin in the assembly (mine came without it) and tried to put a slim
setscrew that stood proud of the knurled knob. It was very troublesome and would catch on things.
I removed it, and the pin shortly thereafter.

You could probably make up a press fit sleeve to go on the spindle end to center up the collet
closer part. Bonus points if you broach a keyway into it. This part may be available if you look hard.



You can just make out the stock spindle gear in this photo, keyway out of view unfortunately.
But it will give you an idea of the wall thickness for the sleeve.

Jim,

What size lathe is that? Did you make the bracket stud (the pin with the square head)? If so, what size did you make the flats?

SLK001 said:

Jim,

What size lathe is that? Did you make the bracket stud (the pin with the square head)? If so, what size did you make the flats?

Click to expand...

Yes, I did cheat a bit. That is a 10L (heavy ten) in the photos. I reamed up the link a bit on that and made the stud on the
headstock to mimic the carriage clamp bolt on that machine, as it was missing the original clamp bolt so I made what I thought
should be the correct size.

Also the other end of the link is not the usual bolt and nut, but rather the drop-in knurled pin shown in the photo.

so as it turns out, that stupid little pin had been pushed in towards the bronze split bearings and was preventing that part of the closer from rotating. thus my utter confusion, cause that part seemed like it needed to rotate as well for the closer to function, but it would just move slightly and seemed to be hanging up on something. so i just took the pin out, and now voila! works fine. i think if i just turned a sleeve to keep OD of the end of the closer aligned properly with the OD of the spindle, that it would function just fine as is, the collet locking in seems to press the end of the closer to the end of the spindle and lock everything together. so it seems like the key on the special spindle gear isnt totally necessary?

i posted below, i think you were correct, and i was wrong. i was totally confused because there was a slight problem with the closer that was preventing part of it from moving:

so as it turns out, that stupid little pin had been pushed in towards the bronze split bearings and was preventing that part of the closer from rotating. thus my utter confusion, cause that part seemed like it needed to rotate as well for the closer to function, but it would just move slightly and seemed to be hanging up on something. so i just took the pin out, and now voila! works fine. i think if i just turned a sleeve to keep OD of the end of the closer aligned properly with the OD of the spindle, that it would function just fine as is, the collet locking in seems to press the end of the closer to the end of the spindle and lock everything together. so it seems like the key on the special spindle gear isnt totally necessary?