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My 'New' 70 Year Old Heavy 10

duckfarmer27

Stainless
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Location
Upstate NY
Bear with me for a couple minutes of explanation, then the pictures.

I have had my first metal lathe for over 10 years - an old South Bend 9" Workshop C. Had lots of miles on it and was extremely dirty when I got it, so I tore it down completely, cleaned, new felt, etc. Has been a good machine. Taught myself to thread with it but have to admit change gears and no power feed can get old at times. Few years ago I acquired a Cincinnati 13 inch and debated getting rid of the SB. Decided to keep it for smaller stuff, plus my now 6 year old assistant (grandson) has a real interest in such things and spends a lot of time with me in the shop - so hopefully in the future it would be a good lathe for him to learn on if he is so inclined. He is already learning the difference, for instance, between turning and facing, etc.

Three weeks ago on an auction web site I check regularly (looking for an old wood planer, but that is another story) I happened to see pictures of a Heavy 10 that a school district 20 miles away had listed. I was not really looking for a lathe but since it was close why not check it out. Our son and his family live 10 miles past where the lathe was and I watch my granddaughter after preschool on Mondays, so a week ago this past Monday I stopped on the way for about 5 minutes to check it out.

Here are the pictures from the auction web site. I apologize for the size of the thumbnails but they do not make it easy to copy the pictures. You get the idea of how it was displayed for sale.

Dale

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And the first inspection

So based on the pictures I figured there was a very dirty, what appeared to be Heavy 10. I knew that I wanted to get the serial number to figure out its age and inspect things the best I could. The picture of the one drawer looked like a typical trashed high school shop lathe, but it still had 'How to Run a Lathe' and what appeared to be other paperwork with it? And it appeared to have a taper attachment. Remember - this was a 10 minute, last minute setup stop.

In talking to the guy at the bus garage who was the point of contact I was told it had come from the school shop a number of years ago, had been used very little at the garage and has been sitting for years. The very few chips in the chip pan matched with the story. But he said it ran the last time it was plugged in and supposedly was a good lathe. They need the room and want it gone.

So I start opening drawers - results below. Wow, what have I found? Drawers are a mess, but it looks to have about every accessory SB had available for the lathe. Dirty, but nothing appeared horribly abused. Now I am not an expert on a Heavy 10 and at this point I have more questions than answers. Plus, I don't want to act like the proverbial kid in a candy store. Take my pictures, go home and do some research.

Dale

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Research Time

So I now spend many evenings on this and other sites trying to figure out what we have here.

Serial number indicates it was built in December 1944 - January 1945 time frame. Has 'US 23' stamped just before the S/N so it was bought by government. Does not have the Army Ordnance or Navy anchor stamp. But the cabinet has me stumped. In all my searching I could only find one reference to a 5 drawer cabinet like this, and the poster said he had only ever seen 2. Plus, what is with the wooden trays, all fitted to hold all the tooling? Looks like a setup for military use (in a prior life I 'owned' Army mobile machine shops so am familiar with the setup from late 60s on). But I also don't recall seeing a Heavy 10 in that configuration. But like I said, I am no expert.

The research solved a few questions but left many unanswered. For one thing I had not taken the pictures shown in the previous post yet - they were done on the second visit. It seemed a second visit was in order. With all the stuff there I had not seen a four jaw chuck - was one hiding? Plus I had not taken pictures of the drawers nor inventoried them in any detail. Plus I had not seen a war production tag, but then the room was not well lit and the machine was really dirty.

Seems like a second visit was in order this past Monday - as the auction closed the following day.

Dale
 
Second Inspection and Auction Results

So this past Monday I set up to go look at the lathe again. I debated doing a second inspection - what if I was tipping my hand? But I really wanted a better look at things to make sure I was not being overly optimistic about the whole thing.

Below are some more pictures. First order of business was looking for a four jaw chuck. The guy I dealt with was curious about things in a very good way - great guy. He asked how old it was and I showed him the war production tag, explained the S/N. I asked if there was any other tooling - we looked in the other bench but nothing. Then I noticed the 'box' on the back side of the bed - but it would not lift off. Further examination revealed two latches - release them and the top and sides of the box comes off, leaving the base attached to the chip pan. Inside a very good condition SB 4 jaw chuck. So at least that question was answered. You will see from the pictures the 'chuck box' sitting next to the carriage/taper attachment.

The rest of the pictures are of some of the tags and the ways. Definitely shows how dirty the machine is. But almost no rust - a little on a couple of hand wheels, but that is to be expected. Appears to have been oily enough that the dust stuck and sort of protected it. I looked in the spindle oilers and they are full, another good sign. I did not take a picture of the end cover, nor did I open it - kicking myself for that. Should have, but again, even allowing time there was too much to look at. Nobody else had been to look at the machine or had called about it.

The auction ended early last evening. On these my usual practice used to be to jump in at the very last minute, my usual MO at any auction. Last fall I got skunked on a nice wood planer playing that game - a thunderstorm came through and we literally lost power while I was bidding - the only other real bidder got a heck of a deal. So 3 hours before the end I put in my bid. At that point it was sitting at $570. When the auction ended I was the high bidder at $700.

It will be a day or two before this gets home. Then I can start cleaning and do a complete inventory - that should be interesting. Once I start on that process I will add to this string and include some more pictures.

Dale

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Dale,

I think you got one heck of a deal. I like that cabinet. The wooden drawer organizers are likely built in the high school shop from which it came.

Vlad
 
Brought It Home Today

Well, the new 70 year old is safely in the shop. Small glitch yesterday - I do have to bad mouth the auction outfit. Got an email mid afternoon - my bid was not accepted, they want more money. I call the woman, being as nice as I can be with my blood pressure up. 'The customer feels you should pay another $100 (which brings it to $800)'. My question is why they did not have a reserve on it. Oh, we don't need that, look at our Terms and Conditions. Don't know if a friend was the 'back bidder', hoping I would drop out or what. Anyway, its worth it and I paid it.

Pictures are of sitting in the truck prior to unload. Then sitting at the back of one bay, ready for spot cleaning during the quick inspection this afternoon. Data plate for the bench - I am assuming the 5D indicates it is a 5 drawer. Allan was correct - cover is for metric gear set. Based on the inside picture I don't think there are any of the metric gears present. But I am not familiar enough with these things - is the banjo a metric or standard? Have not had time to research that one

I would appreciate any comments or corrections anyone might have as I bore you with about 30 pictures! And you will notice how dirty it is - fits with the additional information I got today.

This was in a school system bus garage. I made an assumption it came through the school shop - wrong. Longest serving employee there is over 30 years. When he started this was sitting the the corner we removed it from today. He had been told that 10 years prior to his starting they had gotten 2 trucks from the Army. One was a wrecker - and the other one had this in the back. I'm guessing it was whatever the late 40's / Korean vintage shop truck was. Fits with the weldment on the back of the bench for bolting to the van wall. Maybe Bill (Thermite) will chime in - he 'owned' some, I believe, earlier than I did (my active duty was 72 - 74). I never saw a Heavy 10 in any of the mobile shops we had then, or until they threw me out much later. Anyway, the story is it was used once and has been sitting for over 40 years. You might be able to see in the picture that when we picked it, some oil ran out of the spindle and apron oilers - lathe was just slightly unbalanced towards the front - it was stable, but not plumb. They were full. So whoever last used it put the oil to it, and I think the whole surface was oily. As a result it looks horrible, with all kinds of dust bunnies on it, but protected. Very slight surface oxidation on a few of the handles. You might also notice that someone smeared grease on the rack - over time some dripped onto the lead screw, thread dial, etc.

Dale

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Documentation and Chuck

I had seen the one SB 'Blue Envelope' in my inspection prior to bidding. When my buddy Jim and I were pulling all the drawers out in preparation for loading I noticed another one. It was jammed behind the top drawer. Upon looking at it, it was the same parts list as in the drawer. And both have the same serial number penciled in the top corner. Must have been the first one slipped behind the drawer, inspector caught it - somebody probably got chewed out, then a second one put in. What are the odds that TWO of these would survive 70 years in the bench? Also there is the 'How to Run A Lathe', copyright 1942. When I got my old 9" SB I bought the same one from Lindsay. Also found was the 1945 Williams catalog pictured.

You can now clearly see the 'chuck box' that is bolted on the chip tray. Undo the 2 latches and we find a pristine SB 4 jaw - does not look to have had a lot of use. I will remove this box prior to setting the lathe up and plug the holes with short bolts / washers. Don't worry, any part I don't use will be tagged and stored on the racking in the shop and the binder for the machine documentation so noted.

Dale
 

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Ways

I have only cleaned the ways in a few spots. Below you can see the serial number area in the one picture. Then one about a foot out from the chuck with the other picture being right under the front of the chuck. A few dings but not too bad. I'll have to stone a few of them just a bit. The picture actually shows a bigger ridge than what it looks like in person. I'll have to get out the magnifier, but overall I don't think the bed is in bad shape at all.

Dale
 

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Belting, Apron and Electric

Looks to be the original leather belt. A little dried out and stiff, but the first time I looked at it the tension was off, so it probably just sat there loose for 40 plus years. Pulley and motor, like everything else, needs a good cleaning. Motor is 3/4 HP GE. Apron top has remains of some kind of decal that must have been factory applied. Some kind of over current device, can't say that I have ever seen one like this. Will need to fit a new power cord - current BX running to a box, with a short cord coming out was probably a good idea to get it going but not the best long term solution.

Dale
 

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Tooling

Now to the contents of the 5 drawers - and there was a lot in them. First are the collets and associated items. Next picture has Alligator Clip set so we can fix our leather belt, old pipe center that runs on grease in it, a Trucut item I believe is for armature work and the spare jaws for the Cushman chuck mounted on the lathe (note - that has been on there for 40+ years so I dosed it good with Kroil and will do the same for a few days before I try and budge it). I don't recognize the one item - kind of a collapsible collet. I really like the next picture with the unopened can of white lead - now I can fill the tailstock cavity, use a dead center and pretend it is 1949, the year I was born. Just have to heed the warning to wash my hands prior to smoking or eating after using the white lead - and it sounds a little dry, might need some more boiled linseed oil. The one drill chuck is still wrapped in paper and grease - appears to have never been used. Steady and follower appear to have been hardly used, if at all. Last photo shows only damage uncovered so far - there was an old break on the thread dial. Looks to be an easy braze repair - but it is really gunked up from the grease on the rack.

Dale
 

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And More Tooling

The driver plate and face plate have slight surface rust but as you can see looks like they were never used, based on how the back side looks. And the dogs are a barking. Missing one tool holder - but of all things last year in an auction box lot I got a new old stock, still in the box one - so set will be complete. Liked that in the pile was the special wrench for the Williams boring bar end nut. Don't know why the larger ones were included, but they will fit my 13" Cincinnati. And more wrenches than I can imagine - the one tool tray has slots for many, I'll have to figure out what was originally stocked. And last but not least, the little covered space in the collet tray (which will need some wood repair) are two sets of knurls and three of the little brass plugs that go in the oil hole in the quick change gear box.

Dale
 

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And the rest of the story - for now

Last picture is of all the other junk in the drawers - would not be complete without two hand fulls of nuts and bolts, broken center drills, drills, allen wrenches, etc.

I am really debating with myself as to how to proceed. On the one hand everything was oiled. Based on that, and everything turning easily by hand, I fired the motor up. Very quiet. Spent 2 or 3 minutes just trying things to see that everything moves the way it should, etc. I am not inclined to do restorations on my machines - keep them in top mechanical shape, but like the 'survivor' look better than pristine, but that is just me - a tool is a tool and to be used. But, if my grandson is so inclined I'd like him to be using this in 70 years. So I am thinking maybe it is best to totally tear this down and replace all the felts, etc. For sure the apron / carriage - I had to move it prior to cleaning the ways just to load it and who know the junk under there. But the spindle? Debating that one - what are your thoughts.

I got done doing the inventory and came in for supper. As it should have the metric gears I figured to send an email to the guy who loaded it today - Jason has been a great guy to work with on this - and ask him to keep his eyes open for any gears. Next thing I know the cell phone rings - it is Jason. In this auction were 10 or 12 items - one of which was a pristine Sunnen hone for connecting rods. Guy who bought that stopped by to check it out in preparation for getting it later. In going through the cabinets of stuff for that he (the machine shop owner who bought the hone) found more stuff for the lathe. So next Tuesday morning I'll go pick that stuff up. Who knows what else is there.

Dale
 

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Dale, even though that auctioneer put the "squeeze" on you for an extra $100, you have really found yourself a GEM here! The additional stuff you received with the lathe is really icing on the cake. I'm SO jealous!
 
Going out on a limb here, given that it's late in the year and all....

Probably the single best lathe deal of the year reported here. Amazing tooling
with the machine. And, the lathe itself - not half bad either!
 
Rest of the Stuff - and a Question

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I consider myself very lucky to have stumbled over this lathe and tooling. One of the best buys, value wise, that I think I have ever gotten.

Picked up the remaining items today. Looks like part of an old spring compressor, plus two boxes. First box is a new Armstrong threading tool holder, new and unused - with a Delta Rockwell sticker on it. Too big for the Heavy 10, but will see use with my Cincinnati. Next box also has a Delta sticker, set of 5C collets 9/16 to 1 inch by 16ths. Two have been opened, but appear unused - the other 6 are still wrapped in the paper. Collets made by Royal. Couple of nice boxes of tools.

Third picture is the question - what exactly is this bolted to the back of the bed? Looks like some kind of stop. I'm just not knowledgeable enough on this machine to know what it is.

Did a couple hours more cleaning and organizing Saturday. First conclusion I have come to is that this thing is so dirty that I have to do a complete tear down to make sure all the crud is removed. Although I said in the first post that I usually don't do paint jobs I am starting to think that in this case I am going to paint. Lathe is just too nice not to, if I am going to tear it down completely anyway. Will have to wait until mid winter, but I am starting to think that will be the plan. After I sorted all the tooling and tried to put it in the appropriate cutouts in each drawer most are filled. 4 drawers have a few open spaces - but one drawer has nothing in it. I believe that is where the metric threading gears and associated items went. Hard to tell what ever happened to them. Only other items missing are the rod and bed clamp for the taper attachment so I will have to be on the lookout for those.

Thanks for all the comments and I'll put some pictures up when I get this completed, but it will be a while.

Dale
 

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Thanks to all of you for your comments. I consider myself very lucky to have stumbled over this lathe and tooling. One of the best buys, value wise, that I think I have ever gotten.

Picked up the remaining items today. Looks like part of an old spring compressor, plus two boxes. First box is a new Armstrong threading tool holder, new and unused - with a Delta Rockwell sticker on it. Too big for the Heavy 10, but will see use with my Cincinnati. Next box also has a Delta sticker, set of 5C collets 9/16 to 1 inch by 16ths. Two have been opened, but appear unused - the other 6 are still wrapped in the paper. Collets made by Royal. Couple of nice boxes of tools.

Third picture is the question - what exactly is this bolted to the back of the bed? Looks like some kind of stop. I'm just not knowledgeable enough on this machine to know what it is.
Did a couple hours more cleaning and organizing Saturday. First conclusion I have come to is that this thing is so dirty that I have to do a complete tear down to make sure all the crud is removed. Although I said in the first post that I usually don't do paint jobs I am starting to think that in this case I am going to paint. Lathe is just too nice not to, if I am going to tear it down completely anyway. Will have to wait until mid winter, but I am starting to think that will be the plan. After I sorted all the tooling and tried to put it in the appropriate cutouts in each drawer most are filled. 4 drawers have a few open spaces - but one drawer has nothing in it. I believe that is where the metric threading gears and associated items went. Hard to tell what ever happened to them. Only other items missing are the rod and bed clamp for the taper attachment so I will have to be on the lookout for those.

Thanks for all the comments and I'll put some pictures up when I get this completed, but it will be a while.

Dale

How many of you have wondered why the tie rod bracket has one side that hangs down further on one side than the other???TAbrkt.jpg
The bracket(stop) in Dale's third picture is why. The tie rod brkt will hit it and keep the taper attachment from crashing into whatever is in the back of the headstock. The 10', 13', 14 1/2, and 16' had them at one time. It was deemed to be unnecessary.
BTW Dale, I have the Metric Transposing gears you are missing.
Ted
 








 
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