The Neglected Saddle Gib?
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  1. #1
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    Cool The Neglected Saddle Gib?

    Quote Originally Posted by tobnpr View Post
    To each their own..but I've never looked back since using spray-on chain lube in areas not subject to swarf. Drive gears ("C" oil slings off in a matter of hours), rack (good luck trying to oil the underside of the rack any other way, and some of the back of the apron that's really not accessible any other way.

    Quoting from "Tobnpr" on another thread (below, on "Lubrication"), he does bring up an interesting point about the underside gib at the
    end of the saddle. How exactly IS it suppose to get oil? By rubbing an oil-soaked rag under the back surface every once in awhile?
    Or was it simply a "non-issue" that didn't require any attention? I checked the "Official Lubrication Chart for 9" and 10" Lathes"
    on my wall (yes, I'm a sick man!), and there is no mention or even any arrows to this gib....I mean, where's the love?!

    Before writing this thread, I couldn't even find this gib in my list of parts to see what official name to use....I didn't see
    it anywhere. Perhaps my list is incomplete? I don't know. But you would think this part that
    warrants a machined surface would be an important part of the overall "system" of the saddle.

    How tough would it be to have an oil hole somewhere back there for an occasional quirt of lube? Maybe a GITS oiler on top surface
    of saddle would simply get in the way back there, or get knocked around during production work. Little brass oiling tube....out of the question.
    This gib DOES have an affect on the amount of drag on the saddle, and therefore, ALL of the drive gears/parts in the apron.

    I think I'll add a slip of paper on my Lub Chart not to forget this!

    Seems that an enterprising young man that dabbles in 3D-printed parts (and who reads these threads/website), could come up with
    a FELT wiper system to attach to either the gib itself, or perhaps a unit that spans both ends just gets pushed back and forth.
    It would have an oiling hole on top to saturate the felt pad on the underside surface.

    Just something to think about. Did SB neglect this?
    Opinions/thoughts?
    (Yes, too much time on my hands)

    PMc

    gib-6.jpg gib-1.jpg gib-5.jpg gib-3.jpg gib-2.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Good points, I've been meaning to reply to that thread, just been busy. But with your pics I might link it there.

    All things being equal, I don't think you should tighten bolts to create drag though. You actually don't tighten them as a normal bolt. In reality I think it should have a threaded screw with a lock nut. Maybe tighten with .0015" feeler gauges, between what we'll say is like a bed clamp, and the bed. Then pull feeler gauges out. Or just tight until the clearance is just about removed.

    I had planned to drill holes through bolt heads and use safety wire, to wire the two bolt heads together to keep them from loosening. But just spot checking now and then, they have not back out on me. But the screw with a lock nut is a better idea. Could run yearly checks and adjust, or adjust on periodic trimming out of lathe.

    I find I dont have chips collect under the bed there. On occasion I shoot oil on my hand and wipe under side of bed.

    Edit* Thinking way wear may be a factor on how loose or tight, depending where on ways you're at.

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    I thought about ways of getting oil down there from ball oilers at the top of the Vs, but I couldn't figure out a way of getting oil to go back uphill without creating reservoirs that would attract chips and dust. In the end I figured that there'll be enough oil running down the outside of the V to do the job.

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    Yeah, it's probably only a safety thing, so a .010 gap is prob just as good as anything for all practical
    purposes. I know I have 2 or 3 split washers on each bolt just to have more "spring" travel to work with.
    A threaded stud with an actual spring on it held by a nylon insert nut would be best and worry free,
    not that I ever really worry about it. I generally snug up the bolt, then unscrew by half a turn.

    Getting oil on the surface is probably best the way you do it...or just use grease.
    But an interesting little design assignment!

    I'd be willing to bet a dollar to a donut that if you were cutting the MAX diameter of your machine, with the
    tool load way forward, you would probably see the back-end of that saddle jumping just a bit.

    PMc

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    Not a gib. It is a saddle retainer to prevent the saddle from lifting off. It should not be tightened down but have a gap.

    Vlad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladymere gr View Post
    Not a gib. It is a saddle retainer to prevent the saddle from lifting off. It should not be tightened down but have a gap.

    Vlad
    No one said it should be tightened down. If you tighten it down, the saddle won't move.
    According to a thread from Paula, the split washers on the two bolts are to act as tensioners.

    I did a Google search for "saddle retainer" as you specified, but could not find that part.
    However, I did find this: (search Part #PT61NK1)

    https://ebay.us/U6M8E1

    or

    https://ebay.us/QD5o64

    PMc
    Last edited by mcload; 01-04-2021 at 09:36 PM.

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    I have the original Parts List shipped with my 1945 Heavy 10. Actually need to wish her a happy birthday - tomorrow is the 75th anniversary of her ship date from the factory to the US Army via General Tire and Rubber in Huntington, WV. They evidently assembled the machine shop truck it came out of.

    In that parts list the part number is 61R1 and the 'name of the part' is Saddle Gib.

    Need to head out to the shop and do some work with her to get ready for the big celebration tomorrow!

    Dale

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    Interesting topic. With the taper attachment there is the un-felted "outrigger" that rests on the ways. When my lathe sits for a while I put oil on the ways on both sides of it and run the saddle down the bed before I go to work. This probably allows for some lubrication to run down into the area you're talking about.

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    I suppose the only way to really know is to run your hand or a paper towell
    under the back ways to see if its wet or slick. Prob not a big deal one way or
    the other.

    PMc

    gib-6.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Interesting topic. With the taper attachment there is the un-felted "outrigger" that rests on the ways. When my lathe sits for a while I put oil on the ways on both sides of it and run the saddle down the bed before I go to work. This probably allows for some lubrication to run down into the area you're talking about.
    Many people leave that "outrigger " un-bolted, bed clamp off the rod, and attach it when needing to use the taper attachment. One is the drag might cause a stutter step on saddle, during regular operation. Another is to not break that bed clamp.

    You probably have seen pics of people's lathes with just the threaded rod coming out of taper attachment.

    I think breaking is less of an issue with South Bends, the cast and design is fairly stout. But others if bumped could split the cast iron. People will leave it hanging on the very edge of bed on tail stock end, or chip pan etc to keep it out of harms way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Many people leave that "outrigger " un-bolted, bed clamp off the rod, and attach it when needing to use the taper attachment. One is the drag might cause a stutter step on saddle, during regular operation. Another is to not break that bed clamp.

    You probably have seen pics of people's lathes with just the threaded rod coming out of taper attachment.

    I think breaking is less of an issue with South Bends, the cast and design is fairly stout. But others if bumped could split the cast iron. People will leave it hanging on the very edge of bed on tail stock end, or chip pan etc to keep it out of harms way.
    Mine has a crack that was there when I got it. I never thought to take it off but that's a great idea. I may do this, thanks. I did source another one without a crack but have not put it into operation. I have also bumped it a few times since it sticks out there quite a bit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Mine has a crack that was there when I got it. I never thought to take it off but that's a great idea. I may do this, thanks. I did source another one without a crack but have not put it into operation. I have also bumped it a few times since it sticks out there quite a bit!
    I've unbolted mine, but bumped it with the nut on end of threaded rod. With collet tray as part of bed clamp I didn't want to leave it off bed. But I hadn't moved it to far edge of bed either. Now I keep it at far edge of bed.

    Somewhere Johnordor has a pics of breakage and maybe repair of a bed clamp for a Monarch. On those, the outside bed way is a flat way. The bed clamp has an edge that slips over the flat, toward center of lathe. That edge is thin and easily cracked.

    O/T but some Monarchs came up with a secondary rod to keep alignment to help from cracking. Wonder if it might be worth adapting something similiar to South Bends with T/A.

    6.jpg


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