New guy with new lathe

Hello,

New guy here with a new lathe and a couple of questions. Sorry if this is a repeat question.. Its probably been covered to death in the past..
I am in the early stages of getting a South Bend 16 x 60 8117 C lathe. Its a done deal, except for the moving..
We went and did the final look around last night with my Buddy that is a tool and die maker by trade. This Lathe seemed to me like a win-win deal, but you never know. So now that it has his approval, the search for answers begins, and of course the move to my shop, one of these days.
The major stumbling block is the motor. The original is long gone, and there are two motors that are both off, of the machine. Neither one is usable or the correct style, and worse than that they are three phase.
I am wanting to purchase a new motor, in single phase, that hope fully can be wired to be reversible. So from what I can tell the original... long gone motor was 1.5 hp, and I am thinking about a 2 HP or maybe 3 HP motor to replace it. I am wanting to do this right the first time, so I have a finished product that has enough power.
So since I have no clue what the frame type is or even for sure what the speed was. Probably 1725 RPM, but not sure?
Can anyone recommend a bolt on motor, that will get me what I need? Or at least tell me the RPM and Frame type? The shaft size for the pulley is 1 1/8.

I case any one is wondering about the details of this Lathe.. The Lathe is old, and has been out of service for a long time.
What has saved it from a sure death is the inoperative motor. It has been sitting in the back corner of a welding shop this way for 20 plus years.. Is filthy, and covered with grit from grinders, but it has never ran, so a clean up should fix this.
It comes with the original tool post and holders, and a quick change tool post, both chucks, a live center, steady rest, and the taper attachment. Some minor wear on the ways, and the compound. Nothing real bad, and from what I can tell no broken pieces. I paid $300.00 bucks for it.

Thank you in advance for the help..

Here is the 1942 catalog - 8117 is on page 12. Quick Change Gear Box is the single tumbler version - further towards not-so-old, this would change to Double Tumbler

http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/100B/cat_100B.pdf

Probably be good to get a paper copy of How To Run A Lathe

an online version is here - in two sections - at the January 1st, 2018 dates

South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

Have Fun

Price wise it sounds like you did ok. If you go with a 2+hp motor you will be needing 220v, and although you can wire it for reversing, its a tad more complicated than reversing a 3ph motor imho. If this is going to be a 1 and only machine using a 1ph motor makes sense, but if you have plans for more machines that most likely will be 3ph, you might as well get started on that route.

You'll want 1800rpm motor, whether it says 1780 or whatever, figure it as 1800 on 60hz electric.

2 to 3hp is fine. Original would have been 1.5 or 2hp. Bigger than 3hp, will just slip cone pulley belt.

Pulley outer diameter at 3.5 inch will give you correct spindle speeds. The top speed being around 1000 rpm. I probably would not change that due to spindle bearing type, so 3.5 pulley OD.

Finding a 3 or 4 groove pulley, not so easy. But you can use a two groove pulley no problem. Check ebay once you know motor shaft size.

Also belt size for pulley is known as 4L or A. Often listed as 4L/A.

Regardless frame, you will almost assuredly need to drill new mounting holes and line it up.

Awesome machine! There are some good threads in here about that specific machine so you're in luck there.
Here's the tag from my motor and I have the same lathe with a longer bed.



The motor bolts to a pivoting plate so I think there would be a lot of options to get there if you can't find this size motor anymore. Here's the plate and you can see the hole pattern for my motor.



Good luck!

Some of the speed, pulley and belt stuff I covered in two threads on two machines.

One here, posts #21 thru #26:
Getting Another South Bend 16x6 Operational

And again here, posts #121 and #122:
South Bend No. 2-H Turret Lathe 16"x6' Restoration

Kevin T said:

Awesome machine! There are some good threads in here about that specific machine so you're in luck there.

Click to expand...

Kevin is right. There are some good long threads on these, as well as incidental smaller threads.

Thomas Utley's:
1943 South Bend 16 x 60 Lathe Resurrection

Kevin T's:
South Bend 16 Toolroom Lathe - The Adventure Begins...

homebrewblob's:
New to me southbend 16x87 Need some help

And two from me:
Getting Another South Bend 16x6 Operational

And:
South Bend No. 2-H Turret Lathe 16"x6' Restoration


Kevin T's and my lathes have cast iron spindle bearings. Thomas Utley and homebrewblob have copper bearing shells. Aside from that, they are real close in all other aspects.

Wow that is a lot of material! I read on this site last night until 11 PM. I have found some very helpful info, and I am grateful.
The motor tag info is greatly appreciated, I am going to weigh my options, and see what I can come up with.
Since I want the motor to reverse, I will probably go with the Local shop, as they will be here for me if I have troubles.
The link to the site with all the manuals is really helpful, and I will probably print out and bind some of these for reference.
I still have my "How to Run a Lathe manual. We were required to buy this in High School, and the Lathe I trained on was very much like the one I am getting. That was 40 years ago this year, but since i always hoped to have a Lathe someday, I saved the manual. Its a good thing as I have forgotten a lot of what I learned, back then.
Kevin, I doubt I will go to the work you did on the restoration. Since I am not a Machinist, and will not use this tool every day, probably an inspection, and really thorough cleaning an lubrication will do for me. Mostly this Lathe will serve to repair or rebuild worn or broken parts from old tractors that I restore.

Thank you so much for the response to my questions, and the willingness to help!
Brad

brovoechoseirra said:

Kevin, I doubt I will go to the work you did on the restoration. Since I am not a Machinist, and will not use this tool every day, probably an inspection, and really thorough cleaning an lubrication will do for me.

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You should at least get a refelting kit (and the teardown manual) from Ilion Industries (ebay) and give the lathe all new felts. Since the felt system is how oil is distributed to critical parts, to ignore them is a fool's errand. If the machine is in good condition, the new felts will help keep it there.

Welcome, SLK has particularly good advice as to the renovation process. You won't know what is lurking in the hidden areas until you open things up. Since you sound like you have a mechanical background you probably won't have a lot of problems, the southbends are pretty straightforward mechanically. Jim

My lathe when I found it was inside a building but a very harsh environment outside and next to a large roll up door. It's very windy there with coral dust blowing and multiple welding and grinding operations going on inside the place. It was covered when not used but still I knew I had to go through it. Don't use my thread as a timeline for how long it takes I always have lots going on so it took me over a year to get it done. I wanted to learn a lot of practical stuff that I skipped over in my career so I learned a lot in the process. Not to mention that the chances of me finding another machine where I live are almost zero so I "have" to make this one work!

I'm not a machinist but I've always respected them and I like mechanical things and machines and using them so I feel rewarded each time I use the tool. I found a few things wrong with my machine when I took it apart to refelt it that I might not have known about had I just put her into service. I might not have known what was wrong with it and enjoyed using it less than I do. The machine is super capable if operating properly.

Two things I did that you should not copy are:

1. I used scotch bright pads to clean my ways
2. I didn't take the pedastal apart and clean and re-felt the lower cone pulley area and guess what? I have some oil leaking in that part of the pedastal and I have to wipe that area down from time to time and check the oil cup way too often. This is laying on the ground work and I don't enjoy it! So if you do the job do it all the way!

Another "do it" regarding felts, I just finished re-felting another machine (not a lathe), the old felts were rock hard with old dried oil.

Kevin T
Hurry up and make another post. Your post count is 666. The Devil gonna getya.
I'm not supersticious but play it safe.
bravoechoseirra
Congrads on your new old lathe. Have fun!

I found this ugly repair when I serviced mine! This is the arm to change the gears! The assembly was shot, I found a replacement on ebay.





This too! (Broken gear) Ebay saved me again!



Found some galling of surfaces where stuff had gotten embedded over the years.



Keep in mind my lathe worked ok but she needed some attention to serve me going forward.

My original motor needed a lot of care too. You won't have to deal with this! I had bare wires where the original sheathing crusted away. Cracked insulation on the windings, etc.



That should fix my post count! lol

Get a 3-phase, 220v, motor ("inverter duty"- if budget allows) and run it off a Teco inverter.
SOOOO much more flexibility and control, infinite speed adjustments, and smoother operation.

I have a smaller SB powered this way, and the motor start/stop is so much smoother (accel/decel is programmable), and it's so easy to tweak your feeds/speeds when turning without needed to belt-shift.

I have a larger, Sheldon with a single-phase 220v motor and I don't like it nearly as much. I'm so used to a quick ramp-up of RPM when starting instead of the "all on" that goes zero to full speed instantly. Same with turning off- with a threaded spindle, I like to decelerate rather than an abrupt stop that you get otherwise. With a larger lathe like the 16- and the capability to chuck up large, heavy stock unwinding the chuck could be a valid concern. If the Sheldon hadn't been repowered just before I purchased it I would've gone the same route with the inverter and 3-phase motor.

JMO, YMMV

Hello Everyone,
Thank for the advice. I am pretty picky with my stuff, and will most likely take the advice and pull things apart to have a look see. The replacement felt is a good idea, and you all are right. Can't count how many times I have torn into something that looked pretty good on the outside but was a disaster on the inside. I have waited 40 years to have one of these tools, and I sure don't want to ruin it with lack of maintenance.

I ordered a motor last night from the local shop. I used to motor tag info furnished to give them and idea of what we needed. The guy says he will get a diagram from Baldor, for the reverse wiring. Migth have to buy a switch, if the original is not serviceable, or compatible. I hope it is not too difficult to wire all this up.
That motor was a bit costly, but i went with an american made motor, as i'm not a fan of China made anything..
A single phase motor should make it easier to market if my wife has to dispose of my toys some day. Also I wont have to do a phase converter.
Saturday is moving day, and if all goes well, I will have it on site, and be able to tear in down and inspect, and service it right.
I will probably start a new thread once the work begins..
BES

The brazing job looks pretty good IMO, so long as all the pieces went squarely back together. I think Tig'ing it with a nickle rod or replacing it as you did would be the only other options.

Quote "I hope it is not too difficult to wire all this up"

brovoechoseirra, Baldor is a good motor and lots of help here if any wiring problems. Looking forward to seeing photos of the lathe..

brovoechoseirra said:

Hello Everyone,
..." I have waited 40 years to have one of these tools"...

Click to expand...

Same story for me. You'll be very pleased once she's ready to run!

brovoechoseirra said:

Also I wont have to do a phase converter.

BES

Click to expand...

Water under the bridge since you've got the motor, but since you don't seem to be aware of the technology...
You no longer need large and expensive phase converters to power this type of equipment with 3 phase motors.

For under two bills, this will run up to a 2hp, 3 phase motor. You get the advantages provided by a 3-phase motor, plus the features I alluded to above.

L510-202-H1-U | Teco Westinghouse | AC Drives