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New Member (kind ‘a) New Lathe (sort ‘a) Sad Story (really)

Gigantor

Plastic
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Location
Long Island, NY
Hello All,

I’d like to start by thanking all the members that post on this forum. This information is invaluable to a novice such as me. I’ve been lurking in the shadows for about 2 months now reading everything I could about South Bend lathes. You’ve taught me what to look for when buying a lathe, what models were made and how to tell them apart, what books to read about these machines and machining, you’ve even taught me how to fix a droopy side gear cover. I’ve gotten all of this and much more just by reading your posts!
With all this knowledge (and a little bit of squirreled away cash) I felt ready to go out and purchase my first lathe. I wasn’t looking for anything fancy and with the little cash I had to spend I was ready to take on a basket case. After all, you folks have turned trash into museum pieces and it’s made me feel like I could do the same.

So I started looking through Craig’s List every single day only to find ridiculously priced machines that looked like they had seen better days. I wasn’t afraid of cosmetic issues (all of them suffered from that) but bed wear (and they all looked like they were worn out). I kept trying and kept making phone calls. I did find a WW2 era Heavy 10 that the seller was willing to let go for less than half of his asking price but after taking a look I decided to wait and see what else would come up. After all, he’d been advertising it for awhile and it was still out there. Then one day I saw a posting for a Model A Precision cheap. I made the call and went to see it a few hours later. I bought it on the spot. I tried negotiating, but it really was too good to pass up.

The sad story part: This lathe was shipped on April 4th 1954 and had been taken very good care of its entire life by a gentleman who I believe was named Thomas R. Quermann who worked at Sperry Corporation in their gyroscope division and who was granted several patents based on his work. I pieced all of this together based on the name written on the cover of “How to Run a Lathe”, memos and sketches I found in the table drawer and the internet (I love the internet). I actually purchased the lathe from a gentleman that called himself a real estate investor who admitted that he knew nothing about what a lathe does or how it works. It seems that Mr. Quermann had advanced in years to the point of not being able to take care of himself any longer and was sent to a home to live out the rest of his life. His house was sold from under him lock, stock and barrel to this investor who couldn’t even be bothered to know his name and dispose of his possessions as if they were worthless. I felt very sad for Mr. Quermann and somehow felt uneasy about the whole transaction. I figured the least that I could do was tell Mr. Quermann’s story to you good folks and implore you to take whatever steps necessary to make sure that your beloved possessions don’t suffer the same fate. Will them to someone who’ll appreciate them, a charitable organization that can benefit from them or maybe even a vocational school. Don’t let them fall into the hands of swindler looking to make a quick buck. I truly appreciate the care he gave to his tools and I will endeavor to do the same in his honor. I hope that one day my I’m old and gray my sons will do the same for me.

I've caught the same disease you all suffer from now and hope to use this lathe to make small engines of all types with the grandiose goal of one day making a pair of working live steam locomotives for my two boys to display proudly and brag about their old man’s skills. I’ll have plenty of dumb questions, I'll be searching for stuff (it seems that you can't have enough stuff when you own a lathe) and making myself a general pain on this forum. Please be patient with me, as stated earlier, I’m new to this and I hope you don’t mind.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Here are a couple of pictures of it in it's new home. All I've done is sand and paint the legs of the table and scrub down the table top with a degreaser. It's as original as the day it was built, original paint and all.
 

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Congratulations - a very nice find! And as you mentioned, you will be able to learn with the help of Mr. Quermann. You have an excellent starting point, and with the help of How To Run A Lathe (and this site) you should be able to get started.

Always ask questions - there aren't any of us who learned what we know in one day. None of us know all the answers, but maybe we can all work together to come up with the best answer.

Do some digging at your library, at used bookstores, and at on-line booksellers. Check out the sites for Home Shop Machinist and Home Model Engine Machinist to learn more about model engine building.

Start with conventional high speed tool bits and lantern post type toolholders - once you learn how to grind bits, and you learn more about machining, you may want to go to quick change & carbide, but you can learn very well with the older, basic technology.

Have fun!
 
That is one of the nicest used lathes I've seen in a while. Everything still has the boxes and look there's even a SB sticker on the threading dial. Very nice find. You have more than enough and more than most of us started with to get going and learning! Good luck and you'll find plenty of help here along the way.
 
One of the best tributes to a PO that I've ever read, not just for a lathe but anything purchased. Since you are now the proud owner of a machine that may have been used to better mankind, ...take care of it, treat it with respect, learn how to use it, and above all, make things with it. Congratulations on your find, and hope you make the locomotives for your boys. Best and welcome to the forum. ...................Rick
 
To reinforce Gigantor's comments:

I just finished cleaning out my mother's estate after her passing. She was not rushed (she was 90!) active until the end and lived her life well and died in her sleep without even ruffling the covers. Her last words in her journal were lamenting the loss of the Red Sox earlier that day.

Back to the house. Mom and Dad anticipated their passing for at least a couple of years prior. Especially Dad. Most of the stuff in the attic had been disposed of prior to their passing and the celler/shop only required a good strong weekend of demobilization and roll back and clean out to be suitable for sale. Mom kept the paperwork up and we found lists of things to do "after her passing" including the lawyer, the undertakers, the numbers of the grave plot, bank account numbers and books, and even made my brother and I co-executors of the estate.

Cleaning the house out was simple. A few things were named in the will. The rest was to go by eldest son picks first, then next. In effect my brother and I took turns taking things until we both had our fill.

But there was still a large quantity of stuff in the house that neither my brother nor I wanted - or had room for. Most families today live in smaller houses than their parents. Perhaps a sign of our decreased standard of living?

Both my brother and I live afar. Brother is retired and in Florida. I am travelling in my business and get home perhaps once a month. We had NO alternative but to hire a house-breaker to come in and deal with the rest of the "stuff."

Some of this was of notable value. Like a silver service from a wedding in 1916. But who uses silver today? Value perhaps the value of the silver metal? Another an 1850s sideboard - a bona fide antique someone would pay $600 for retail. Another a dining room table that extends to 16 feet and seats 12. But no matter. The housebreaker would give us a price to clean these things out and even vacuum the wall to wall carpet prior to sale closure (the things were to be left until agreement for appearance.)

We got a quote of $3500 for ALL the remaining goods. "Oh," she says. "You don't understand the cost of handling and transport and storage before re-sale of these items - some of which are of no market value."

But my brother and I were stuck. A house to sell and neither of us nor our family have time to deal with the stuff. So we accepted her offer.

Frankly I'm heartsick. But I know when I'm beat. All that stuff that Mom and Dad had but which now are worth 10 cents on the dollar, if that much.

And Mom and Dad would have been heartsick too. But times have changed even since they set out their will and made their arrangements.

Such is our modern life, I guess. But what a shame. I cry a little as I write this.

So here is my advice for yourselves. Make your arrangements. Do not hoard. As your life wanes, give away anything you have of value to those who will remain and at times and places of their convenience. And take consolation that all will go to those who APPRECIATE your treasures and can care for them properly.

Your generosity is part of your legacy and how you will be remembered. Your children your best and longest, but your possessions are a close second.

Joe in NH
 
Kinda sounds like a happy story to me, and it's a fine looking lathe. Originally owned by a person that loved it and took care of it, and now you can carry that on. It was all a part of it's destiny to make itself to you. ;)

Is that a 4" South Bend rotary table?
 
.....The sad story part: This lathe was shipped on April 4th 1954 and had been taken very good care of its entire life by a gentleman who I believe was named Thomas R. Quermann who worked at Sperry Corporation in their gyroscope division


I have a saw in my shop I bought from a middle aged guy in Wash DC via craigslist. Was his grandfathers who was an engineer in NY city suburbs. As his family grew his use for a bunch of tools declined and he needed room. I answered the craigslist ad and bought the scroll saw. I saw the guy in person 2X to make the deal and pickup. Each time we spoke a bit, I told him of my hobbys and interst, we exchanged a lot of conversation. I helped him figure out where to sell and appropriate prices for the remaining items. And we emailed back an forth a bunch of times.

Months after the transaction he emailed me and said he had a box of stuff I might like. It was a bunch of books and machinery brochures. Of his grandfather, who was also an engineer at Sperry, in the gyroscope division. I wonder if these two guys knew each other? I know this as there was a bunch of Sperry Gyroscope Div paperwork among the items.

Sweet 9" BTW....
 
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Very Nice lathe, i think the original owner would be proud that you own it, I go to estate sales just about every friday, Every home I enter tells a story, some days I do walk out with a tear in my eye, Being in the Buffalo area, this was once a great industrial city, now it is nothing, well we are a new medical area, at least thats what they tell us, I try to get every bit of industrial history I can, also I try to save every american tool. I have been in the homes of past Buffalo Forge employees, Bell Aerospace, Westinghouse, Curtiss, Dupont, (his garage walls were corian)
The most interesting home I was in, the guy had a journal in his basement workshop, He had worked for Curtiss and he had wrote down what he had earned that week, he also had a part time job at a service station, that was included, he also had the manuals for every tool he had, to most, that is junk, to us, that is history. The next week the huge dumpster was on the front lawn.
We all should be proud of ourselves for saving these machines, anyway I hope like hell my kids don't throw it in the dumpster on the front lawn when I go.
Just my two cents, Merry Christmas Everyone
 
I agree, gorgeous 9a, perhaps the nicest I've seen. Very good of you to preserve the memory of the previous owner.

I bought my 9A from a young man that had no idea what it was, and it was dirt cheap, covered in dirt. I slid it into my pickup and drove home. After a few hours cleanup, I relized I had a fairly pristine machine, with virtually no wear. It had obviously been taken care up until.....
I've often wondered about the original owner. I don't know any way to devine the provenance though. But the care this machine has received made the decision to keep it as-is, patina in place, unrestored. It's a nice machine.
 
the cover sold me.that maching is beautiful,not to mention the tooling.very nice find.
i too,hope to at least leave a mark before i go.what the family decides to do with my
"stuff" is up to them.
my son has no interest in my hobbies or projects,but it seems my daughter is taking an interest.
i really need to pass on some knowledge to them,if anything to leave them with good memories.

good luck with the model engines,i have looked a a couple sites and was considering building something myself.once i run out of other things to do.8 or 9 hundered things on my list....
 
Oh yeah, the cover - how cool is that? I've never seen one before, not even a pic.
I've been looking at grill covers to find something suitable for the SB and a few other machines.
 
Thank you all for the nice compliments on my find and the words of encouragement to learn how to use my new acquisition. I’ve already oiled it up (with the correct oils) and made some cuts on some scrap aluminum. It’s so cool being able to work with metal! I’m a decent amateur carpenter and wood is good but metal is better.

The rotary table is actually a Palmgren 8” and was a nice extra to get with the deal.
The cover really is super cool; I couldn’t believe it when I saw it.

Again thanks and look forward to asking more questions!
 
Giganator,
I'm sure Mr. Quermann would very happy with who now is that lathes care taker. He obviously believed in looking after good tools, and it seems you do also.Having respect for the previous owner and the tools he used seems to be a much rarer additude than it should be in today's world. Far too many would consider it as just some old junk or a way to make some fast bucks.

Pete
 
What happens to our tools when we get to the point that we can't use them is a question we all have to deal with someday. I had considered taking photos of all my equipment, and doing a summary for my heirs telling them what something is worth, so when the time came, they could dispose of my equipment at a price that would be reasonable and realistic. Last week, my son and I got to talking about his future plans for a home. He gave me his thoughts, and told me that he wanted to locate on a large enough piece of land so he could build a nice shop in an outbuilding, about the size of a 2 - 3 car garage. He told me that he wanted to move my shop there and expand it down the road.

That made my day. He doesn't know it yet, but I'm going to do everything I can to help him with the project. I want it to be a joint project instead of just an inheritance.

I imagine that Mr. Quermann would have felt the same if he knew that someone had saved his tools
 
You did a nice job. That is a nice tribute to the PO. I too, have experiences such as this. I bought a roll away with tools from my neighbor. He had a storage unit and it was being emptied by his family. I'm sure as as I can be that it was killing him to have his tools sold off. I couldn't help but feel sad for him. I had known him all my life. I was glad to be able to buy this lot as there was much I could use. I now though, am able to think of this good man whenever I use these tools! I REALLY LIKE THAT! I wanted a good way to remember him and I GOT IT! I talked to his daughter some time later and she told me he could not see why I would buy all of his old stuff and that I must have much better tools. I told her what I have stated here. She told me he was very pleased that I was the one who ended up with his tools. I told her how pleased I was and how I thought of him every time I used one of these tools! I only wish the tools could tell stories. My good friend knew his tools would be well cared for and that I WAS GRATEFUL TO GET THEM! It is nice when the PO knows this. I'm sad though it happens very seldom. Another time a gentleman selling a gerstner full of tools had been beaten down on price by people not wanting to pay anything for his tools. I happened upon him from an ad (old days, it was in the paper.) I did not have the money he needed at the time. I told him, I could not ask him to take less. There was so much there it was unbelievable . I felt bad folks had been beating him up on price. I said I would be glad to have it and I would take good care of these tools too. The fellow was not well and needed the money. I told him, I would be glad to pay asking price if I had it but I would not insult him with an offer I would be able to make. Sometime later a similar ad appeared . I called, I talked to a lady and went to look at the tools. It was the same gerstner. When I saw the gentleman again, he asked me if I had a certain amount, which was slightly more than I had but not by much. I told him I thought this was too low. He said he wanted me to have his tools because, I DID NOT WANT TO BEAT HIM DOWN ON PRICE. He felt because of this I was honest and would take great care of his tools as well. I didn't feel right about this but he said he did and was so glad I had answered the ad again. I again was very glad to get the tools and have the PO know his tools would be well cared for. I think of this fellow too, every time I use of these tools. I hope we can all learn from the people who owned and loved their tools and take the care that they did.
 
As others have already said, if not today, some day Thomas R. Quermann will look down and smile! The quality of the lathe seems trivial beside the quality of the thoughts.
 








 
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