Please dont beat me up !

I just joined here yesterday and have a few questions about a SB 9 that I acquired a few weeks ago. Please bear with me as I tend to ramble on at times!

I spent 30 years as a maintenance machinist at a power plant in Chicago and our machines were strictly manual pre and post WWII stuff... American Pacemaker and LeBlond lathes, Gemco shaper, and a 8 foot column Cincinnati-Bickford radial drill to name a few. I was a fairly competent machinist and made a lot of one off parts. So I retired in 2005 and started playing with Model T fords (again) and really needed a lathe... fast forward to last week.

I found a good looking but beat up SB 9 for $300. Its clean and painted but has a few issues that need to be addressd and Id sure appreciate some input. I do post lots of pics so we'll see if that helps...

I also just had major shoulder reconstruction so I am unable to do much more than look things over for now, but a few things to note: First is a broken back gear bearing housing on the headstock. Did this occur from the previous owner (PO) trying to hold back with the back gear to remove the chuck? Seems to be an issue amongst SB owners and this guy now has a 6 jaw independant that needs to go! Id gladly trade that for a decent 3 jaw universal to get this machine on the road again...

The other bigger machines I ran always had 2 lead screws... one for feeds, and one for threads changed with a tumbler at the gear box. The SB has a single screw, but is missing the thread indicator dial. It was replaced with a factory made (?) knurled knob that Im guessing is a plug to keep the hole clean. Ideas? Theres also a micrometer carriage stop that I see no need for, at least for any operations Id be doing. Whats that really for?

Heres the machine ID: Ser # 25 955 NAR 9 Model A Cat SB CL 744 3 chart 1

9 X 3-1/2 bed

So now Ill try to post some pics. Please dont heitate to let me know what you think! Thanks much... Bill in Two Rivers, Wi.

After destroying a beautiful boring bar I started to use the micrometer stop as a simple boring stop.There may be fancier uses(I'm sure of that)but that is as far as my skills have gotten me.

I can see it working for that as Ive usually used an indicator for positioning. So Id guess you make the cut under power, then make the last few turns by hand up against the stop. Otherwise it would bind up the machine. Always something new to learn even for this old dog with an older machine! ws

Since you are used to running real lathes I doubt you'll be satisified with that toy. You may have tweeked the lead screw the way you have it rigged for lifting. Lots of guys like those 9 inchers. You won't.

Sound advise

That broken back gear bearing boss is a big deal. These lathes are seriously anemic and back gear useage is necessary. The repair of that ,if you have the missing piece, may be possible, but I would look for a replacement headstock from a scrap machine. You can also locate a thread dial the same way. Keep in mind that the lathe is the cheap part of the investment. You need change gears, taper attachment, steady rest, follower rest ect., as well as tools, chucks and collets. You may want to scrap that and buy another machine fully tooled. It will be cheaper.

About 20 years ago, I had another SB 9 that came from a school with every concievable tool that SB ever made for the machine. I ended up selling it to a pal since I had to move. It did well for the toy stuff that I need to make for the cars and boats. Then a few years ago, I was gifted with a 9" 1903 Dalton... that shouldve gone to the Smithsonian, but actually did OK as well. It didnt have any threading equipment, only a power transversing gear for the carriage. I just sold that so that I could pick up the recent SB 9 but it too is missing the threading dial and a few other oddities mentioned above. If I werent stuck on such a fixed income, I surely would shop around for a bit heavier machine. The PO did the rigging but the strap went under the lead screw. I will check it though... thanks! ws

The other bigger machines I ran always had 2 lead screws

Click to expand...

Except for about fifty years worth of Lodge & Shipleys - including this 15,000 lb beast from 1947.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/25ModelGLS.jpg

The back gear repair is not too bad, even without the loose piece. Bore out an appropriate ring, using a piece of carbon for an alignment spacer, and braze it on (or have someone that knows how do it). Yes, it will constrict, but a bit of reaming and filing will fix you up. This ain't a high HP, high speed tranny.

Change gears? This is a quick change machine. As for "needed" goodies, you are a machinist so you know what you need for your purposes without anyone preaching to you.

locoguy

Thats pretty much what I had considered doing. I dont have the broken piece, so I was gonna make a "connecting rod cap" and braze it on. Probably clamp the the back gear shaft into position against the driven shaft with hose clamps and a piece of 1/32" gasket material "en mesh" for clearance, then braze it together.
It does in fact have a QC box, only missing the chasing dial. I am guessing that this model has a manually engaged "swing away" type dial due to the single lead screw design. This machine probably wont ever see more than simple 2" brass bushings and 2" x 32 tpi brass caps for Model T Ford radiator caps.
So does the chasing dial merely swivel in and out? Whats the knurled knob about? I wish this dang shoulder would heal so I could go out to the shop and play! ws









'

yachtsmanbill said:

So does the chasing dial merely swivel in and out?'

Click to expand...

Yes there is a pin that fits in that hole where the knurled piece is and a set screw holds it in place. Mesh the thread dial gear into the leadscrew when you need it twist it away when you dont. As for what that knob is I have no idea. Looks home made. You can grab an original dial off ebandit for anywhere from $60-$100 and Tools4CHeap has repros for $100.

I have a stripped down headstock I can sell you for $40+shipping.
Since you have the rest of the bits and pieces it is an easy swap.
Certainly easier then repairing the one you have.
PM me if you are interested
Josh

steve-l said:

You need change gears, taper attachment, steady rest, follower rest ect., as well as tools, chucks and collets. You may want to scrap that and buy another machine fully tooled. It will be cheaper.

Click to expand...

You do NOT need change gears, you have a gearbox.
Really, a Taper attachment? Another not "needed" item. Nice to have, but a necessity, nope...
Collets are another thing not needed.

Just get a new headstock casting and keep your mic-carriage stop, they're wonderful.

Lots of is either own, use, or Have used eay bigger lathes. But this is a home machine with msny happy owners. Use your new South Bend, And then YOU let us know if you like your machine.

My guess is that you will

locoguy said:

Change gears? This is a quick change machine. As for "needed" goodies, you are a machinist so you know what you need for your purposes without anyone preaching to you.

locoguy

Click to expand...

Exactly...

Clarification

bradjacob said:

You do NOT need change gears, you have a gearbox.
Really, a Taper attachment? Another not "needed" item. Nice to have, but a necessity, nope...
Collets are another thing not needed.

Just get a new headstock casting and keep your mic-carriage stop, they're wonderful.

Lots of is either own, use, or Have used eay bigger lathes. But this is a home machine with msny happy owners. Use your new South Bend, And then YOU let us know if you like your machine.

My guess is that you will

Click to expand...

The change gears I was refering to are those needed to cut metric threads, as this machine has an inch lead srcew. Also, as an owner of a 10L with all those accessories since 1980, I can state that I have used these accessories many times over the years. They make this machine much more versatile. A taper attachment is especially useful for making special tool holders or adapters requiring a morse taper shank. This machine has a threaded spindle ,which naturally has a small hole through the spindle, this necessitates the use of a steady rest without the tailstock for turning long items, as this is a home machine and is short. The follower rest is also a real requirement when turning small diameter shafts to prevent shaft flexing. I can understand your statement on the collets. This spindle is quite small and the collets that are available are also for small diameters only and not useful.

I now have three lathes, a 13x40 SB and an 18x54 L&S, but I had my little 10L first as a home and only machine. Versatility is very important when you only have one lathe. Although I have these larger machines, I love my 10L. It is easy to set up and is very accurate and it is not replaced by the larger machines. Please note on this thread the offer for a new headstock for $40, I highly recommend this solution. Applying heat to the headstock casting has an excellent chance of distorting it ruining the machines accuracy.

When I asked the OP to consider scrapping the machine, the advise was based on its lack of accessories and the headstock repair. If the OP considers the cost of equipping his SB9 with chucks, tooling and accessories, verses acquiring a better equipped machine, I believe he will find the latter a poor choice. However, replacing the headstock is still a good choice to salvage his investment in the SB9.
Steve

Bill,
If you elect to repair and equip the SB9, please consider powering the machine with a 3 phase motor and an inverter for a variable speed drive. These small SB lathes suffer a tortional vibration problem, because they are so light. When taking fine finish cuts, I noticed early on after I had bought my 10L a very fine ripple in the finish. I tried everything to get rid of it and could not identify the cause. After many years of living with the fault, I discovered the cause and it was the radial acceleration and deceleration of the single phase motor in operation against a load. Three phase motors are of course much smoother running and the problem just disappeared. Today, 3 phase inverters are really inexpensive for small HP motors and this solution has the additional benefit of providing the ideal turning speed for a job, which is usually a compromise with only 6 speeds available on the machine.
Steve

Now that one deserves the Verner VonBraun award!! Rocket science at its best... Phase imbalance causing the chattered finished. Ive always had a hard time producing a good finish on the 110 V powered stuff and now I know why! Even with perfect tool alignment, a sharp tool honed with a stone... it doesnt matter!
So far rthe repair option looks like the replaced headstock. The available used one looks good to me (thanks JK!) but it has some small score marks in it. Is that from original machining, or is there a bearing insert that spun. Do these spindles really run steel on iron? ws

They run, Steel spindle to film of oil to iron head stock. The scoring is from someone running without enough oil. It will likely still work fine. The above mentioned film of oil means that if kept oiled it will run two or three days short of forever with out waring out. (Give or take a day, of course!) Gary P. Hansen

yachtsmanbill said:

This machine probably wont ever see more than simple 2" brass bushings and 2" x 32 tpi brass caps for Model T Ford radiator caps.

Click to expand...

steve-l said:

The change gears I was refering to are those needed to cut metric threads, as this machine has an inch lead srcew. Also, as an owner of a 10L with all those accessories since 1980, I can state that I have used these accessories many times over the years. They make this machine much more versatile. A taper attachment is especially useful for making special tool holders or adapters requiring a morse taper shank. This machine has a threaded spindle ,which naturally has a small hole through the spindle, this necessitates the use of a steady rest without the tailstock for turning long items, as this is a home machine and is short. The follower rest is also a real requirement when turning small diameter shafts to prevent shaft flexing. I can understand your statement on the collets. This spindle is quite small and the collets that are available are also for small diameters only and not useful.

I now have three lathes, a 13x40 SB and an 18x54 L&S, but I had my little 10L first as a home and only machine. Versatility is very important when you only have one lathe. Although I have these larger machines, I love my 10L. It is easy to set up and is very accurate and it is not replaced by the larger machines. Please note on this thread the offer for a new headstock for $40, I highly recommend this solution. Applying heat to the headstock casting has an excellent chance of distorting it ruining the machines accuracy.

When I asked the OP to consider scrapping the machine, the advise was based on its lack of accessories and the headstock repair. If the OP considers the cost of equipping his SB9 with chucks, tooling and accessories, verses acquiring a better equipped machine, I believe he will find the latter a poor choice. However, replacing the headstock is still a good choice to salvage his investment in the SB9.
Steve

Click to expand...

Steve,

It seems that could just muddy the water for the OP, would he need to do all of that and have all of that tooling for his intentions ?

I understand that in the best world a fully tooled up lathe is the best thing, but for what the OP wants to do, getting all the tooling you suggest doesn't seem like a very good decision.

Here is the problem. In most hobbiest's homes, space allocation for a machine is usually at a premium. Hence the popularity of smaller machines opposed to larger ones. Please note that this can be observed by prices in the used machinery market place, where smaller machines hold their value regardless of how old they are and large machines very often go for scrap weight. I bought my 10L new fully tooled from SB direct in 1980 for $3750 plus shipping in 1980 dollars. The value of this machine fully tooled today in as new condition is the same or better. I contend this is so because of the hobbiest and his space availability, the footprint is very small. If the reader thinks that logic valid, then the versatility of that machine in that scarce space is also logical. So the question isn't if the OP needs these accessories today, he will need these at some point in time and more so the longer he owns it. Only once this is realized, can the financial comparison be made. Please note folks, I own this tee shirt, I owned an SB9 which was used before I bought the 10L. The decision to sell the SB9 for the tooled 10L was made for exactly this dilemma. When I bought my SB9, I didn't think I needed the accessories either. Further, I would have also bought the milling cross feed atachment, if I had found one. Instead I bought my first milling machine to resolve that requirement, but I had to trade a wife for that.
Steve

if you would consider selling your 6 jaw independent i would gladly buy it. i need one in the worst way for a job im doing, all i can find is scroll chucks that are 6 jaw. my email is [email protected]