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Power wiring questions...

LoveAluminum

Aluminum
Joined
May 20, 2011
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
I have a power box on the back of my SB 10, and I am wondering if the three wires (green to ground and the other two to power) can be wired to my kill switch. The emergency shut-off switch only has two terminals going in, and two coming out. The back of the switch is pictured.

Thanks,

Bill
 

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I hate to answer a question with a question but what type motor do you have. Is it 110 V , 220 V or a three-phase.
If it is 110 and the current does not exceed the current limit of the switch, the answer would be yes.
If it is a 220 V or three-phase, the answer would be no. If you're using this as an emergency stop switch, You should use a two or three poll switch. However, you can use a single pole switch to cut power to a contactor. The contactor would be used to cut power to the motor.

Hope this helps.
Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
 
Hi Joe,

The switch can handle up to 360V, however that is unimportant.

The power comes from the wall at 110v, into the shut-off switch, to a VFD, to the three phase motor.

I hate to answer a question with a question but what type motor do you have. Is it 110 V , 220 V or a three-phase.
If it is 110 and the current does not exceed the current limit of the switch, the answer would be yes.
If it is a 220 V or three-phase, the answer would be no. If you're using this as an emergency stop switch, You should use a two or three poll switch. However, you can use a single pole switch to cut power to a contactor. The contactor would be used to cut power to the motor.

Hope this helps.
Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
 
Do not hook any switch or disconnect between the VFD and the motor. Nor is it a good idea to disconnect the power going to the VFD while a motor is running. The VFD should have a circuit marked emergency power off or a function for that feature to be assigned to a Control wire. If you're using it as an emergency shut off that is the function you should use. And yes your switch should do that.
Please note, although I cannot tell which switch you have, 2 terminals May be used as a switch and the other 2 terminals may be used as a light, Alternatively there may be a normally open circuit and one normally closed circuit. Make sure you have the right terminals connected.

Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
 
As I mentioned, the switch is before the VFD.

Yes, it is best to use the VFD to stop the unit. For "emergency" use, I need a switch (pull on, push off power) that can terminate the operation easily and immediately. I have installed and used VFD's before, and find it preferable to have an emergency switch for things I cannot foresee.

If there are two connections for the light, and two for power, that means there is only one hot wire to power for the VFD. On my last switch, it had two in, two out. Hmmm.


Do not hook any switch or disconnect between the VFD and the motor. Nor is it a good idea to disconnect the power going to the VFD while a motor is running. The VFD should have a circuit marked emergency power off or a function for that feature to be assigned to a Control wire. If you're using it as an emergency shut off that is the function you should use. And yes your switch should do that.
Please note, although I cannot tell which switch you have, 2 terminals May be used as a switch and the other 2 terminals may be used as a light, Alternatively there may be a normally open circuit and one normally closed circuit. Make sure you have the right terminals connected.

Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
 
I'm hesitant to step into this one for several reasons...but I can't help myself. Your drive has a logic buss/circuit that can shut it down in a emergency (properly) faster than pulling the plug. You say you have installed VFD's before...judging from your questions (and attitude) I would have never have guessed that to be the case. If I were 'asking' for advice I certainly wouldn't be 'giving' advice...it's a slippery slope here on the PM when you do that!:o

Stuart
 
As I mentioned before, It is not recommended to cut the power to the VFD as an emergency stop function. the VFD has a Emergency stop function Built into it. This emergency stop function normally includes a breaking system which will stop the motor much faster than cutting the power. This could mean the difference between a minor problem or one that is more serious. The only thing in your shop that cannot be replaced, is you and anyone that is there with you. Your safety and the safety of others is the most important thing. It is better to properly wired up and use every safety feature that the VFD can give you, Then to just do it the quickest way.

A person who tries to do things the quickest way sometimes has to do the same job over again. A person who thinks about his work and tries to do it the right way the first time spend less time working and gets more done.

Never get complacent about working around machinery. Always remember that these machines can seriously injure or even kill you.
Give yourself every advantage.

Stay safe, and have fun.
Joe.
 
Ok, I'll go there. See pics...

Yes I am aware of the circuit, but it will not shut down if something goes haywire with the chuck, or work material goes crazy, or something else non electric. An emergency button has saved the day a couple of times, so I appreciate the comment, but a cut off it shall have.

See video of the last project, and while this is a bigger lathe, it operates no differently.

If you have any questions, let me know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Qvcmh710U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr1IHvQenT0

I sold the unit two weeks ago to a very nice gentleman. Rebuilding them is cheap thereapy for me...
 
Ok, I'll go there. See pics...

Yes I am aware of the circuit, but it will not shut down if something goes haywire with the chuck, or work material goes crazy, or something else non electric. An emergency button has saved the day a couple of times, so I appreciate the comment, but a cut off it shall have.

...

The Emergency stop circuit that I refer to is a control wire that comes off the VFD. Its function and use is almost identical to that of turning the power off with the switch with one exception, the VFD will Apply braking force to the motor. If something goes haywire you have to manually press the switch. There is nothing automatic about either function. It is a switch that you or someone near you must press. You can wire the unit as you wish. But if you do not want to consider our recommendations please do not waste our time. At least Do your homework and think about what you're doing. As I said your safety is the most important thing.

Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
 
I am not responsible for you wasting your time, you are. And your advice is nothing new or engenius.

No, I do not care to use the braking resistor method. I am familiar with it, and you can even program the VFD etc to slow or stop and assign it to another button---I know.

I don't care for your advice so please do not offer any more.
 
You Sir (and I use the term loosely) are the the north end of a southbound horse...just like the one in your funky Avatar! It was obvious from post #2 that you don't know feces from shoe polish about frequency drives...:crazy:

Stuart
 
Also you might double check the connections on that kill switch
you showed. I have a sneaky suspicion that it may be two
contacts that are NC, and two that are NO.

Just a guess. Could be wrong.
 
You Sir (and I use the term loosely) are the the north end of a southbound horse...just like the one in your funky Avatar! It was obvious from post #2 that you don't know feces from shoe polish about frequency drives...:crazy:

Stuart

Well Stuart, sadly people like you and your stooge buddy like to bully people off the forum that don't measure up to your expectations, or don't follow your advice.

I had an elective professor like you in college that hated business majors, Funny thing, his department came to me for money to help expand their department. I told them why I would not donate to the "cause". And from what I heard, many alumni were saying the same thing.

My point is simple, your attitude and condescending sense of entitlement will get you what you deserve in life. You are your own problem.

The rest of the "horse" you refer to is attached, and it is not surprising you don't recognize it. I know your type, bully. I became good at dealing with them through experience in LA. Your avatar should be a mouse because you use these forums to harass and pick on people that seek help, you would never do in person.

If you have any more issues with me, take it off line and PM me. No need for you to degrade this forum with your poor attitude and potty mouth.

The avatar;
I have done a lot of work on the car, as I enjoy tinkering. Coming from sheer poverty in Los Angeles, I dreamed of owning a Ferrari, so the symbol is a reminder of my struggle to get something I always wanted. And a few know what it is and have asked about it. So, there you have it.

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Jim, I think you're right.

I just did a continuity test on the switch and the two bottom poles are closed when the switch is engaged, and open when it's pulled. I bought it on ebay and may end up using it on another piece of equipment I have. I have used Automatiion Directs VFD's before and their help desk is fantastic. So I'll wait until Monday to chat with them about my switch.

I relied on the internal E-stop before, and it worked fine for months, then it failed and would not shut down. That is a problem I cannot have again. Perhaps with the larger VFD it will be easier. I'll report back...thx
 
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not impressed with what is in your garage. It's what is in your head and in your heart that impresses me.

I have known extremely rich and extremely poor people and one thing that impresses me about any of these people is their willingness to take people as they are, not to prejudge. The old adage you cannot tell a book by its cover comes to mind. Things can be replaced, someone's knowledge and compassion cannot be replaced as easy.


The only thing we ask is that you have an open mind and when you ask a question, be appreciative of anyone who tries to answer regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Whether you like the answer or not the effort was there.


And to all others, we do not need to get into an argument about who is right or who is wrong. Name-calling does not help. He has a right to his opinion. If you do not like his post, feel free not to comment or answer his questions.

Stay safe and have fun.
Joe.
 
I've read my Hitachi's VFD manual cover to cover twice. It clearly states that if an operator needs an emergency stop during machine operation, the logic circuit within the VFD should be used. The VFD can stop the motor faster then cutting power will. I am very confident when I say any VFD manual will tell you this.

You should already have a power disconnect switch to the VFD in the form of a fused disconnect box mounted in close proximity to the lathe. However, it should be used if something has caught fire, not if you need to stop the machine faster.

Again, the VFD is capable of stopping motor rotation faster then power cut off. Not only are there capacitors inside the VFD which retain a charge, it is also capable of manipulating the power to the motor in such a way where the magnetic fluxes react to each other in a way the motor applies a braking force, stopping rotation faster.

That all being said, the question as to how to wire this according to the manufacter's instructions should be fully answered by the VFD manual.
 
Thanks, I appreciate it. I was raised in government subsidy housing, stabbed and more scrapes than I can count.

I honestly thought I would get some ideas on the wiring of the switch. I am surprised the mods allow for it.

I have previously had an e-stop fail within a VFD and do not care to rely on it again. I have already installed flash fuses and the only thing left is the switch to cut power when I need to. I will not own a piece of equipment such as a lathe or mill without a cut-off switch. I can appreciate those who do like to fly without one, but I don't.

Having read the VFD manual several times, I still believe having a cut the power switch is the wisest decision one can make to eliminate electrical and fire issues quickly. I don't want to run around the back of the lathe to unplug it if the VFD catches on fire or refuses to shut down. You know where these are made, right?

Having had several Porsches, fantastic cars and far cheaper to own and operate. A Ferrari is a terrible purchase; clutch is $7,000, belts $2,500, oil change $500, etc. And in this instance, reality is not nearly as nice as the fantasy. However, I met the nicest people ever that share a passion for cars. Tickets are expensive too!

I will be going ahead with the wiring of the switch, the last component of the electrical rewire.

Power---switch---flash fuses---VFD---Motor.
 
It is not in the best interest of this group to start Giving advice that contradicts normal practice, the manufacturers recommendations or OSHA.
Having said that, read your manual. And go find a book on basic wiring and wiring electric motors. Other than that I will not help you.

STAY SAFE!!.
Joe.
 








 
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