soth bend 13 model 113A

Rob_o · Jul 13, 2018

Hello,
I am new here.
Just bought a South bend 13 that has sat for 20 years thankfully indoors.

Does anyone know what size motor is on there. It is a 3 phase motor and I am planning to use VFD to run it.
What size circuit on the house side do I need to go from single phase to 3 phase.

The spindle is a bit stiff hopefully it will loosen up after I run it.
Oils, what type to you recommend?
I have no manual does anyone have a copy or where should I look?
Finally there is no flat belt?
I heard you can glue a belt together.
What do you guys recommend.
thanks for the help

Rob

GenePoole · Jul 13, 2018

I'm not familiar with that model number, but I'll give you some info on my 1966 CL145 13 inch. It has a 1 HP motor (I think 2 HP was an option for that model) and I run it from an Allen Bradley VFD that is fed from a 30A 220V "double" breaker in my panel, but I think that is way overkill (it just happened to be a free 220 breaker in my panel). The motor is probably capable of either 220V or 440V operation and you may need to rearrange the wiring to get it to 220V.

As far as oils, I've switched to ISO oils from my local Farm and Home for type B and C (ISO 32 and ISO 68 respectively) and I've got a couple of gallons of Velocite 10 for spindle oil I picked up cheap somewhere, but I started with an ebay kit:

SOUTH BEND LATHE RECOMMENDED A, B, and C LATHE OILS | eBay

As far as belt, I recently replaced mine with a green rubber/nylon belt from Al Bino, and I can't be happier. Smooth running and no more "clack, clack, clack" from the staples on my old belt.

Any size flat drive belts by Al Bino Industrial Belting | Machine belts supplier

See my post here:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...stall-sb-13-a-336385-post2992494/#post2992494

johnoder · Jul 13, 2018

Catalog 100-F says 1 HP

Here is only "manual", may be a bit "newer" than needed

http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf
http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf

m-lud · Jul 13, 2018

Give all the oil passages a good flushing. Oil them to until you see oil on the edges of the bushings. Old machinery needs constant oiling. More machine's get worn more from lack of oil than using the machine. Oil and Work safe.
Enjoy cutting metal.

This comment is common cense but some people don't oil

k3vyl · Jul 13, 2018

I have an 8113-B the 8 indicates a tool room lathe so it is a more accurate 113B. The A is a 4 ft bed and the B is a 5 ft bed.My machine has the SN 142442 and was shipped 7/16/43.It was shipped with a 1 1/2 HP motor.It got to me with a 3/4 Hp motor and works well,but I do my heavier things on a gear head 13" Le Blond out in the garage with 1 1/2 horse motor.If I could only have one lathe it would be the SBL 13.

tobnpr · Jul 13, 2018

Get the manual and rebuild kit from Ebay.
NO WAY, no how on this earth any felt wick that's been sitting for 20 years is capable of wicking oil. Every one of them will be solidified.

These old lathes are total loss machines. Not a modern lathe where all the gears are immersed in oil baths.

Sure, you can run metal on metal for a while until you turn it into scrap metal. If it's in good enough condition for accurate work (potentially), take the time to give the machine the attention it needs.

Rob_o · Jul 13, 2018

I was thinking of flushing them with kerosene?

m-lud · Jul 14, 2018

I think tobnpr may be right. I missed that had sat for 20 years. If it was oiled when it was parked that oil can turn hard. You can try a flush but I would oil all you can directly to the moving parts.
Think of how nice it would be to have the oiling system all fresh and clean. It will also help get you familiar with the working parts and possibly find and fix a problem before it destroys a shaft or bushing.

I see more damage from lack of oil than from normal wear In some cases that's why these old machines get pushed in the corner. There a few machines that were well taken care of when in use.
Just think of all the grit that old oil attracted in 20 years of sitting. Just waiting to score nice metal.
I wouldn't take anything apart accept what's needed
Your probably a good judge of what you have and what's needed. Your aware of the issue. I'm sure you will take care of your lathe.
If the spindle is stiff I wouldn't try to run it to loosen it up by running it. Its dry or has hardened swarf. You could do damage The bushing is wide and will get hot quickly.

k3vyl · Jul 15, 2018

Kerosene is the recommended solvent in the SBL booklets. You need a suction pump to get the old oil out. DO NOT try to unscrew the headstock oilers. They do not come out. The oil reservoirs can be accessed by removing the spindle and the wicks. Be sure to read the instructions!

Rudd · Jul 15, 2018

mllud:
Are you quite sure about that?
On my 1941 13", the headstock oilers are press in and can be removed, which is good, because that is where you stick a wire in to hold the felts down while you install the spindle.
Use a finger to press down the felt, stick the wire in with the other hand.
Removing the oilers lets most of the oil run out of the holes where the oilers go.

m-lud · Jul 15, 2018

mllud:
Are you quite sure about that?
On my 1941 13", the headstock oilers are press in and can be removed, which is good, because that is where you stick a wire in to hold the felts down while you install the spindle.
Use a finger to press down the felt, stick the wire in with the other hand.
Removing the oilers lets most of the oil run out of the holes where the oilers go.

No I'm not sure the headstock bearings couldn't be loosened up . If that's what your talking about. I would try to get it loosened up by oiling and hand turning as much as I could before running it. It depends on how tight and how dry the bushings are weather or not it will heat up.
If you can get all lubed up with a flushing that's all good. As long as it gets attention.
A kerosene bath could work wonders.

Rudd ; That's good information given about the headstock oilers

Rudd I think you got my post confused with K3vyl's Post about the oilers. Mine unscrew on my 16". His should

unscrew.

k3vyl · Jul 17, 2018

The catalog number 113 lathes are series S lathes with cast iron bearings.Only the 10 and 13 have the non removable oilers.
I have been told that they were built that way because of wartime copper shortages.Cast iron bearings are very durable so if you find one it is a treasure.I imagine the non removable oilers were a miscalculation caused by the need to get these machines in the pipeline quickly????
There are threads on this forum telling how to pull them if the need arises.The machines can be recognized by the holes above the oilers for the wires to hold down the wicks for spindle installation.When they are pulled (slide hammer style)an insert comes out of the main casting with the oiler. Cant remember how it goes back.
They went back to the bronze bearings after the war was over.

Janderso · Jul 20, 2018

Regarding the cast iron bearings. My 1941 13" South Bend #113 has very little wear on the spindle bearings. The spindle looks pretty darn good as well for a 71 year old machine.
I agree, if they had the proper oil in the reservoir, these old iron machines run a long time.
See pics.

k3vyl · Jul 20, 2018

Don’t lose the little wires in the return passages. They are there for a purpose. There are several theory’s as to their purpose.
My machine had a cast iron cross feed nut as well. More copper conservation.

m-lud · Jul 20, 2018

My 1942 16" with cast iron bearings and the threaded oilers has those holes above the oil cups. The ten" and 13 must be driven in. Now I know what the upper holes are for. I first thought they set the oil level as an overflow but that didn't really make cense. Excess oil will flow out the bearing.
Its time for me to order a wick kit and get my basket case back together. To many irons in the fire. :willy_nilly:

Janderso · Jul 20, 2018

k3vyl said:
Don’t lose the little wires in the return passages. They are there for a purpose. There are several theory’s as to their purpose.
My machine had a cast iron cross feed nut as well. More copper conservation.

I was thinking they act as guides (or return dipsticks

) for the return oil to the reservoir with an added bonus as a swarf filter? That's my theory anyway. All 4 were there when I re-felted the heads. All 4 went back in.
I cleaned out the old oil and added fresh.

k3vyl · Jul 20, 2018

Mine was not bound up when I got it, but I did clean out the reservoirs with kerosene while I had the spindle on the bench. Thrust bearing also got the kerosene bath. I put kerosene in a pump Oiler and flushed everything I could. At that time I did not have the felt kit. I reused the wicks, and they are still in there. They may have been replaced by the US navy who were the original owner. I got the kit and have rewicked the end gears so far. Those wicks were crusty.
One of the stories about those wires is that they break the surface tension in the return passages allowing the oil to return easily.

Rob_o · Jul 21, 2018

Model 113A

Thank you everyone for your inputs.

The chuck is a little looser from just moving it by hand.
I have order a rebuild kit and manual and proper oil as suggested.
My current thinking is to flush and evaluate and reload with new oil
I should be able to see if the oil is winking in most cases.
I have a machine built pre war so it may have the cast iron bearings in the spindle.
How difficult is it to take apart the spindle and replace or adjust the shims.
I've done fussy work before in aligning a headstock but I don't want to open up a can of worms if I don't need to.

After perusing the manual it looks like a long haul to disassemble every piece.
I guess I'll have to go a step at a time and see.

other questions:
The tail stock has a live center that is stuck.
Any ideas on how to get it out without damage?
I have backed off the handle but it still won't budge.
I was thinking of apply a little heat to it?
Any other ideas?

The movers bumped the carriage handle and broke it.
I have removed it but need to replace the taped pin.
Where can I find more pins?

The cross find and compound rest seem to have worn lead screws.
Are parts (lead screw and nut) still available at reasonable cost?

So does this sound like a reasonable way forward?
Thoughts?

Rob

mllud22 said:
I think tobnpr may be right. I missed that had sat for 20 years. If it was oiled when it was parked that oil can turn hard. You can try a flush but I would oil all you can directly to the moving parts.
Think of how nice it would be to have the oiling system all fresh and clean. It will also help get you familiar with the working parts and possibly find and fix a problem before it destroys a shaft or bushing.

I see more damage from lack of oil than from normal wear In some cases that's why these old machines get pushed in the corner. There a few machines that were well taken care of when in use.
Just think of all the grit that old oil attracted in 20 years of sitting. Just waiting to score nice metal.
I wouldn't take anything apart accept what's needed
Your probably a good judge of what you have and what's needed. Your aware of the issue. I'm sure you will take care of your lathe.
If the spindle is stiff I wouldn't try to run it to loosen it up by running it. Its dry or has hardened swarf. You could do damage The bushing is wide and will get hot quickly.

Rob_o · Jul 21, 2018

Thank you everyone for your inputs.

The chuck is a little looser from just moving it by hand.
I have order a rebuild kit and manual and proper oil as suggested.
My current thinking is to flush and evaluate and reload with new oil
I should be able to see if the oil is winking in most cases.
I have a machine built pre war so it may have the cast iron bearings in the spindle.
How difficult is it to take apart the spindle and replace or adjust the shims.
I've done fussy work before in aligning a headstock but I don't want to open up a can of worms if I don't need to.

After perusing the manual it looks like a long haul to disassemble every piece.
I guess I'll have to go a step at a time and see.

other questions:
The tail stock has a live center that is stuck.
Any ideas on how to get it out without damage?
I have backed off the handle but it still won't budge.
I was thinking of apply a little heat to it?
Any other ideas?

The movers bumped the carriage handle and broke it.
I have removed it but need to replace the taped pin.
Where can I find more pins?

The cross find and compound rest seem to have worn lead screws.
Are parts (lead screw and nut) still available at reasonable cost?

So does this sound like a reasonable way forward?
Thoughts?

Rob

k3vyl · Jul 23, 2018

Cut a piece of 2” pvc pipe 2 or 3” long and split it with a hacksaw. Run the tail stock out to fit and hose clamp the pipe in front of the casting and behind the center. Back the tail stock in quickly.1 1/2” pipe might fit but I didn’t have a piece to try. If you don’t have a hose clamp just hold it with your hand. Keep the fixture for next time you use the live center. The live center probably has a short taper.

soth bend 13 model 113A

Plastic

Cast Iron

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Aluminum

Attachments

Stainless

Stainless

Aluminum

Stainless

Plastic

Plastic

Stainless

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